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Post by annienormanna on Jan 11, 2006 22:27:14 GMT -5
Some may seem trollish but the idea of dark and light is an old dialogue among the Italians in America and Italy. It has political implications that run to things like the secessionist Lombard League, to who can pass and get out of Bensonhurst. This conversation among the Italians and about Italians has gone on since the 19th century. Characterizations of the Calabrese not withstanding, isn't there an Italian identity? Yes, one in Italy and another in America. Virtually every Italian American can gain automatic Italian citizenship based on "blood line" laws. This conversation among the Italians and about Italians has gone on since the 19th century in Itlay and America. But don't forget: there are Italians who will never be considered white, in Italy and in America. It's our dirty little secret.  |
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Post by nymos on Jan 11, 2006 22:46:59 GMT -5
Would this Italian ever be considered white?  |
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Post by Toasty on Jan 11, 2006 23:22:56 GMT -5
Would this Italian ever be considered white? maybe in Peru. |
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Post by psychosemitic on Jan 11, 2006 23:34:07 GMT -5
Would this Italian ever be considered white? maybe in Peru. haha dont be facetious, hes "white" anywhere in the americas and europe |
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Post by Toasty on Jan 11, 2006 23:42:33 GMT -5
haha dont be facetious, hes "white" anywhere in the americas and europe yeah, I know I'm just kidding, you know that right? I think you look 'whiter' than him. |
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Post by psychosemitic on Jan 11, 2006 23:46:43 GMT -5
haha dont be facetious, hes "white" anywhere in the americas and europe yeah, I know I'm just kidding, you know that right? I think you look 'whiter' than him. skinwise maybe, features not really  |
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Post by Crimson Guard on Jan 12, 2006 3:22:37 GMT -5
Yigal you live around Flatbush?
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Post by nockwasright on Jan 12, 2006 3:48:33 GMT -5
Some may seem trollish but the idea of dark and light is an old dialogue among the Italians in America and Italy. It has political implications that run to things like the secessionist Lombard League, to who can pass and get out of Bensonhurst. This conversation among the Italians and about Italians has gone on since the 19th century. Characterizations of the Calabrese not withstanding, isn't there an Italian identity? Yes, one in Italy and another in America. Virtually every Italian American can gain automatic Italian citizenship based on "blood line" laws. This conversation among the Italians and about Italians has gone on since the 19th century in Itlay and America. But don't forget: there are Italians who will never be considered white, in Italy and in America. It's our dirty little secret. Can you quote someplace where this "conversation" about Italians and their skin color went on in Italy since the 19th century? |
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Post by durnisi on Jan 12, 2006 11:08:19 GMT -5
Some may seem trollish but the idea of dark and light is an old dialogue among the Italians in America and Italy. It has political implications that run to things like the secessionist Lombard League, to who can pass and get out of Bensonhurst. This conversation among the Italians and about Italians has gone on since the 19th century. Characterizations of the Calabrese not withstanding, isn't there an Italian identity? Yes, one in Italy and another in America. Virtually every Italian American can gain automatic Italian citizenship based on "blood line" laws. This conversation among the Italians and about Italians has gone on since the 19th century in Itlay and America. But don't forget: there are Italians who will never be considered white, in Italy and in America. It's our dirty little secret. Can you quote someplace where this "conversation" about Italians and their skin color went on in Italy since the 19th century? I think its related to the innate Italian desire to seperate themselves from the neighbors, make them be as different as possible, whether it be the town next to yours, the region, or the country. The mentality of how "our" town, "our" region has always been better. And people in these towns will find any excuse for this. The concept of "whitness" is not an Italian one, but an anglosaxon one. So it was only encountered by Italians who for some reason or another found themselves in a country with an Anglosaxon tradition. You only speak of "bianchi" in Italy due to the Americanization of the nation. It is not a native concept --- the native concept being always "us" (the people in a town, region, ecc.) and "them" (foreigners). |
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Post by Ilmatar on Jan 12, 2006 11:15:02 GMT -5
This is basicly what Italian and in a larger sense European posters have been saying here since the endless threads on who is white / who is somehow "off-white" started to appear here. The whole concept is utterly American, and shouldn't be applied, as such, in Europe.
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Post by Crimson Guard on Jan 12, 2006 11:30:27 GMT -5
The concept of "White" is not utterly American,its mainly British,French and German...pretty much a European Imperialism design,that just got passed on to their Colonies.But again if you look at the 18th-early 20th centuries you will see European Intellectuals out numbering American ones with Racialism playing a significant part in the Enlightenment movement and Racial thinking ,Anthropology & Government.
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Post by Ilmatar on Jan 12, 2006 12:22:48 GMT -5
Yes, I know a whole lot about the cultural construction of whiteness. The problem is that many Dodona posters don't. And some don't seem either willing or capable to understand.
Therefore there are many - mainly American, I gather - posters who use the term "whiteness" thinking that the connotations of the word are universial and shared by everybody. The European "whiteness" of the Colonial era wasn't similar to the "whiteness" many posters here are referring to. If there is to something comparable to "whiteness" in Modern Europe, then skincolour doesn't play such an important role in defining it as it does in the US.
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Post by Crimson Guard on Jan 12, 2006 12:35:26 GMT -5
Europe has many problems with race and immigration..Britain has a large Black population with their troubles,Australia and Canada has their troubles. So Race/Racism isnt an American problem alone,just doesn't work that way.  |
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Post by eastanglian on Jan 12, 2006 12:45:29 GMT -5
There's a lot of racist abuse of black footballers in Italy. The crowds often make monkey noises when they've got the ball at some clubs.
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Post by Ilmatar on Jan 12, 2006 12:52:19 GMT -5
Yes, we do have problems with immigrations in Europe. But really, we don't have the long and traumatic history of race based segregation which has left its' signs to the American society and the American concept of "whiteness". Canada and Australia too are cases apart. Really, what one should understand is that each country has its' own problems, rising from their history. Therefore the same concept shouldn't be applied or the same solutions shouldn't be proposed universally.
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