IQ's of Nazi leaders tried for war crimes

[Ewig Berter]

In 1945, an army psychologist named G.M. Gilbert, was allowed to examine the Nazi leaders who were tried at Nuremberg for war crimes. Among other tests, a German version of the Wechsler-Bellevue was administered. Here are the results:

1 Hjalmar Schacht 143
2 Arthur Seyss-Inquart 141
3 Hermann Goering 138
4 Karl Doenitz 138
5 Franz von Papen 134
6 Eric Raeder 134
7 Dr. Hans Frank 130
8 Hans Fritsche 130
9 Baldur von Schirach 130
10 Joachim von Ribbentrop 129
11 Wilhelm Keitel 129
12 Albert Speer 128
13 Alfred Jodl 127
14 Alfred Rosenberg 127
15 Constantin von Neurath 125
16 Walther Funk 124
17 Wilhelm Frick 124
18 Rudolf Hess 120
19 Fritz Sauckel 118
20 Ernst Kaltenbrunner 113
21 Julius Streicher 106

You may find these data in The Nuremberg Mind: The Psychology of the Nazi Leaders by Florence R. Miale and Michael Selzer, as well as in The Reich Marshal: A Biography of Hermann Goering by Leonard Mosley.

Notice that there is a clear correlation of IQ with social status. Notice, as I've pointed out before, that success in the practical socio-econimc sense usually goes to those with IQs between 125 and 150. And finally, notice that there are no towering IQs in the 150 plus range, as one would expect from theoreticians. None of these men were original thinkers.

What was Hitler's IQ? We will never know for sure, but we can guess that it wasn't much different from those at the top of this list. He wasn't an original thinker either.

www.eskimo.com/~miyaguch/grady/nazi.html

[ndrthl]

Not a single extremely gifted person. And not a single person with below average intelligence either. The group profile would be moderately above average (ordinary 'intelligent' group).

[sirius]

Albert Speer 128? also, I doubt Hitler would have been at the top of the list, he would also have been around 120-130 IMO.

[ivyleak]

ndrthl said:

Not a single extremely gifted person. And not a single person with below average intelligence either. The group profile would be moderately above average (plain 'intelligent' group).

I disagree. Those, IQs, while not in the genius range are certainly high. Obviously, high IQs don't make for very ethical people.

Doctors and Engineers are the occupations whose members are the most intelligent in a population. The average doctor has an IQ of around 127 and the average engineer has an IQ of 125-130. Research scientists and professors are somewhat higher (130-140). Almost every other profession has a lower average IQ.

[Melnorme]

127? That actually sounds a bit low.

[ivyleak]

Only 2% of the population has an IQ 130 or above.

[Ewig Berter]

Werent these figures high in their era (~ 1950)!?. I mean shouldnt they be understood in their context.

[ndrthl]

ivyleak said:

ndrthl said:

Not a single extremely gifted person. And not a single person with below average intelligence either. The group profile would be moderately above average (plain 'intelligent' group).

I disagree. Those, IQs, while not in the genius range are certainly high. Obviously, high IQs don't make for very ethical people.

Doctors and Engineers are the occupations whose members are the most intelligent in a population. The average doctor has an IQ of around 127 and the average engineer has an IQ of 125-130. Research scientists and professors are somewhat higher (130-140). Almost every other profession has a lower average IQ.

They would not belong to Mensa or any other high IQ related society, thats for sure. And they would stand out in a crowd of extremely intelligent people. They were a group of 'standard intelligent' people, which is different. I would seriously doubt if any of high ranking Nazis (or any other political association) would be in the extremely gifted range.

[ivyleak]

ndrthl said:

They would not belong to Mensa or any other high IQ related society, thats for sure. And they would stand out in a crowd of extremely intelligent people. They were a group of 'standard intelligent' people, which is different. I would seriously doubt if any of high ranking Nazis (or any other political association) would be in the extremely gifted range.

Actually, Mensa membership begins at IQ 130.

On-line IQ tests often give exaggerated scores in the 150s. These aren't considered legitimate tests by the scientific community.

[penetratorx]

I'm suprised at Ribbentrop having an IQ as high as 129, I've read that those around him considered him to be rather stupid.

Count Ciano wrote of him that you only had to look at the shape of his head to see he was stupid, although quite what he meant by that in an anatomical sense I'm not sure.

Hermann Goering at 138 is a suprise also, but then a lot of his stupidity was down to being a morphine addict.

[Josh]

Whenever I have searched for "Hitler IQ", it has brought up pages saying that he was about 140.

[dukeofpain]

penetratorx said:

I'm suprised at Ribbentrop having an IQ as high as 129, I've read that those around him considered him to be rather stupid.

Count Ciano wrote of him that you only had to look at the shape of his head to see he was stupid, although quite what he meant by that in an anatomical sense I'm not sure.

Hermann Goering at 138 is a suprise also, but then a lot of his stupidity was down to being a morphine addict.

Lol. He must've been. He wasn't smart enough to convince you brits to not attack germany.

[dukeofpain]

"Hermann Goering at 138 is a suprise also, but then a lot of his stupidity was down to being a morphine addict. "


It's not suprising. He was intelligent and defended himself well at nurenberg. If anything, him being a junky is proof to addicts not being the cretins they're made out to be.

[henerte]

penetratorx said:

I'm suprised at Ribbentrop having an IQ as high as 129, I've read that those around him considered him to be rather stupid.

He indeed was not a very brilliant person. He let the Nuremberg tribunals sentence him to death despite the fact that the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact was signed also by the russian side and one of the prosecutors was from Russia. He wasn't smart enough to use it for his defence. I think that even Goering was mocking at him and thought him to be plainly stupid.

[dukeofpain]

henerte said:

penetratorx said:

I'm suprised at Ribbentrop having an IQ as high as 129, I've read that those around him considered him to be rather stupid.

He indeed was not a very brilliant person. He let the Nuremberg tribunals sentence him to death despite the fact that the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact was signed also by the russian side and one of the prosecutors was from Russia. He wasn't smart enough to use it for his defence. I think that even Goering was mocking at him and thought him to be plainly stupid.

No doubt the smartest man at Nurenberg was Erich Von Dem Bach-Zelewski. Hitler used to say, "that man is a clever one".

I don't think you should take anything that came from the Nurenberg trials at face value. Countless historians, let alone revisionist Historians have said staright out it was a kangaroo court and merely a continuance and final conclusion to the war. This website details some of the absurdities brought forth at the trials.

www.cwporter.com/partone.htm

www.cwporter.com/parttwo.htm

www.cwporter.com/partthree.htm

www.cwporter.com/partfour.htm