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Post by zathuras on Nov 11, 2005 12:57:44 GMT -5
And what about Chechnya and Dagestan and Azerbaijan? Are these considered trans-continental?
I tried wikipedia but it left me still confused.
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Post by Mike the Jedi on Nov 11, 2005 14:13:45 GMT -5
All of those regions are Asian in my book.
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heavenwood
Full Member
A Jew with a casual interest in physical anthropology? I've seen weirder...
Posts: 102
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Post by heavenwood on Nov 11, 2005 14:30:36 GMT -5
Both are in the Asian continent.
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Post by ohes on Nov 11, 2005 18:33:04 GMT -5
The boundary of Europe on the Caucasus is not very clear (and that is what Europe really is, an imaginary boundary) but I guess all of the definitions assume north of Caucasian Mouintains as Europe, hence Chechenia and Dagistan are both in Europe.
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Post by zathuras on Nov 11, 2005 18:59:39 GMT -5
The boundary of Europe on the Caucasus is not very clear (and that is what Europe really is, an imaginary boundary) but I guess all of the definitions assume north of Caucasian Mouintains as Europe, hence Chechenia and Dagistan are both in Europe. Are chechens on average darker skinned compared to balkan populations? I haven't seen many chechens, but the ones I have seen I think look very balkan sometimes even slavic. They look kind of albanian or bosnian or something. Its my understanding that people from Dagestan are slightly darker.
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Post by eufrenio on Nov 11, 2005 19:42:43 GMT -5
For cultural reasons, they are considered to be part of Europe. Some might say that Armenia belongs to Europe geographically as well. When I was in schoool I was taught that the Caucasus was part of Europe.
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Post by ohes on Nov 11, 2005 19:43:36 GMT -5
The boundary of Europe on the Caucasus is not very clear (and that is what Europe really is, an imaginary boundary) but I guess all of the definitions assume north of Caucasian Mouintains as Europe, hence Chechenia and Dagistan are both in Europe. Are chechens on average darker skinned compared to balkan populations? I haven't seen many chechens, but the ones I have seen I think look very balkan sometimes even slavic. They look kind of albanian or bosnian or something. Its my understanding that people from Dagestan are slightly darker. There are many different ethnicities in Caucasia, like every isolated valley on the mountains is populated by a different ethnicity. For example, Dagistan have many different ethnicities living together. I advise you to search the web for Circasssian or Cerkez to learn more.
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Post by asdf on Nov 12, 2005 2:04:44 GMT -5
Italy, France, and Germany are Europe. Everyone else is just wallpaper.
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Post by yigal on Nov 12, 2005 3:16:39 GMT -5
u left out spain, which is historically as important as France and certainly more than italy! (rome is too far in the past and technically it wasnt italy) SALVE LA VITORIA! lol
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Post by asdf on Nov 12, 2005 3:26:33 GMT -5
To quote the French: Africa starts the Pyrenees.
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Post by MC anunnaki on Nov 12, 2005 3:42:17 GMT -5
;D
Perhaps we can divide the countries into European countries, off-Euro countries, wannabe-Euro countries and not-a-snowball's-chance-in-hell-that's-a-European-country countries.
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Post by nockwasright on Nov 12, 2005 5:13:49 GMT -5
u left out spain, which is historically as important as France and certainly more than italy! (rome is too far in the past and technically it wasnt italy) SALVE LA VITORIA! lol He left out also England and Greece which could arguably be considered the most important of all, so I think he was just joking. Spain is surely not as important as France in European history nor more than Italy, ever heard about the renaissance? It's the more important for South America, but South America is of 0 importance for Europe. What would "salve la vitoria" mean btw? In Europe there are some hypercivilised countries and populations that however for one reason or another gave a minimal contribution to the European culture or identity (as the Scandinavians, but also the Swiss, the Belgian etc.). They express the European culture at its peak, but could be wiped off history and Europe would be the same. Other countries are at a lesser degree of civilisation/wealth and do not express fully the European values, but are much greater contributors to European identity, as Greece, Italy, Spain, Russia. Europe would be much different without such countries. Finally the three states that are in both categories (relevant and fully developed European values) and were major players in European history recently are England, France and Germany. For this reason I think these three countries are what best represents Europe.
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Post by asdf on Nov 12, 2005 5:30:05 GMT -5
Exactly. Italy is super important, but Spain...
England isn't continental, so I excluded them, like Cyrpus and Armenia.
But I'm joking anyway, as you said.
One thing I'm wondering about is the Netherlands... they were crucial for the IR, sorta.
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Post by eufrenio on Nov 12, 2005 7:06:36 GMT -5
The usual definition is any country West of the Ural mountains. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Physical_Map_of_Europe.jpgArmenia, being North of Anatolia and west of the Urals, should qualify as European. I know that in the past, Armenia was located on both sides of the Caucasus. Malta and Crete are European by any definition; Cyprus in the cultural sense, that is, the Greek part. I can´t see why Germany is more European than, say, Bulgaria. Some posters have a very narrow and new-world definition of Europe, that unknown continent! LOL!
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Post by nockwasright on Nov 12, 2005 7:19:42 GMT -5
I can´t see why Germany is more European than, say, Bulgaria. Some posters have a very narrow and new-world definition of Europe, that unknown continent! LOL! If we can astract a concept of Europe from the reality of Europe (and we can, otherwise there would not be this discussion), German history would be much more relevant to that concept than Bulgarian history. That's what I meant. If you want to know about Europe you can go to Germany and study German, surely can't go to Bulgaria and study Bulgarian. You can't understand Europe if you don't know Germany, while you can completely ignore Bulgaria. Makes sense to me.
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