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Post by yigal on Oct 20, 2005 18:27:07 GMT -5
i think it may indeed be bioligical and not cultural because tests conducted in england came out with simmilar results on Asian/black iq bias i mean i aint racist because im triracial therefore dont belong to any specific race but just parroting iq studies But it has also been registered many iq variation during a time too short to be a product of evolution. maybe but i dont belive in macro evoltution anyway but varation and selective "mating" both of these may explain why ashkenazim out Iq there oriental counterparts, i think it has to do with the fact they all decend from a handfull of people,founder effect,bottleneck and all that good jazz(and bad jazz as it also not only amplifies desirable traits like eyecolor light hair and iq but bad ones like genetic diseases)
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Post by Batrus on Oct 20, 2005 18:29:52 GMT -5
But it has also been registered many iq variation during a time too short to be a product of evolution. maybe but i dont belive in macro evoltution anyway but varation and selective "mating" both of these may explain why ashkenazim out Iq there oriental counterparts, i think it has to do with the fact they all decend from a handfull of people,founder effect,bottleneck and all that good jazz(and bad jazz as it also not only amplifies desirable traits like eyecolor light hair and iq but bad ones like genetic diseases) well, the rise of iq cannot be ascribed to natural selection as it's proved that smarter people marry less and have less children. So the world's iq coudn't be getting higher as a result of that.
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Post by yigal on Oct 20, 2005 18:36:16 GMT -5
maybe but i dont belive in macro evoltution anyway but varation and selective "mating" both of these may explain why ashkenazim out Iq there oriental counterparts, i think it has to do with the fact they all decend from a handfull of people,founder effect,bottleneck and all that good jazz(and bad jazz as it also not only amplifies desirable traits like eyecolor light hair and iq but bad ones like genetic diseases) well, the rise of iq cannot be ascribed to natural selection as it's proved that smarter people marry less and have less children. So the world's iq coudn't be getting higher as a result of that. i dont see what your saying, IQ is hereditary as for having less kids blame it on "enlightened" western culture (ie the irreligious) a hundred years ago when most jews where religious each would have 8 kids and they had to be smart, they had to be proficient in yiddish,hebrew and aramaic as well as the language of whichever land they where in
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Post by Batrus on Oct 20, 2005 18:38:59 GMT -5
well, the rise of iq cannot be ascribed to natural selection as it's proved that smarter people marry less and have less children. So the world's iq coudn't be getting higher as a result of that. i dont see what your saying, IQ is hereditary as for having less kids blame it on "enlightened" western culture (ie the irreligious) a hundred years ago when most jews where religious each would have 8 kids and they had to be smart, they had to be proficient in yiddish,hebrew and aramaic as well as the language of whichever land they where in My example was about the rise of world's iq, not the jewish one. I must plead ignorance about the reason jewish are so smart. Maybe, you should tell us, so we can all be smart too
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Post by yigal on Oct 20, 2005 18:57:09 GMT -5
sorry bro im dumb ass dirt, lol go ask Solomon or k666 they are ashkenazi
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Post by CooCooCachoo on Oct 21, 2005 0:08:28 GMT -5
yeah i didnt mean to imply i was part of the privlaged IQ gifted group, i am not ashkenazi in part or in whole i since corrected my statement by clariffiying i meant ashkenazi jews I didn't think you were doing it. What's an ashkenazi jewish, anyway?...Why one that escaped the Nazis of course. Ashekenazi refers to some reference in the Torah of a Northern most city. So it's the term used to describe diaspora Jews who went to Europe. Sigmund Freud is a classic example.
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Post by CooCooCachoo on Oct 21, 2005 0:15:18 GMT -5
There's a controversial theory about how economic pressures lead to biological intelligence advantages in Ashekenazi Jews. It correlates higher rates of diseases like Tassacs syndrome with superior intelligence, and it's prevalence in the Ashekenazi Jewish community. ...It's an interesting and bold theory. Here's a link with some information on it. newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/culture/features/1478/
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Post by yigal on Oct 21, 2005 0:18:51 GMT -5
I didn't think you were doing it. What's an ashkenazi jewish, anyway?...Why one that escaped the Nazis of course. Ashekenazi refers to some reference in the Torah of a Northern most city. So it's the term used to describe diaspora Jews who went to Europe. Sigmund Freud is a classic example. your definition is lacking,and unclear sephardic jews such as my anscestors are also european jews and the nazis killed most of greeks jews who are sephardic
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Post by CooCooCachoo on Oct 21, 2005 7:44:28 GMT -5
...Why one that escaped the Nazis of course. Ashekenazi refers to some reference in the Torah of a Northern most city. So it's the term used to describe diaspora Jews who went to Europe. Sigmund Freud is a classic example. your definition is lacking,and unclear sephardic jews such as my anscestors are also european jews and the nazis killed most of greeks jews who are sephardic Is that wrong? Ok, how's this? Ashekenazi Jews are the surviving Y-Chromosome of Jews, and none of the mitochondreal DNA that Jewish women carry indicating a mixing of Jewish people with local women in Northern Europe. Or the definition I like is, Ashekenazi Jews are the ones who find Sephardics unacceptible to marry their children.
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Post by yigal on Oct 21, 2005 14:50:00 GMT -5
your definition is lacking,and unclear sephardic jews such as my anscestors are also european jews and the nazis killed most of greeks jews who are sephardic Is that wrong? Ok, how's this? Ashekenazi Jews are the surviving Y-Chromosome of Jews, and none of the mitochondreal DNA that Jewish women carry indicating a mixing of Jewish people with local women in Northern Europe. Or the definition I like is, Ashekenazi Jews are the ones who find Sephardics unacceptible to marry their children. lol how about this Ashkenazim = Eastern European and Central European jews Sephardim = Western European jews btw u have it backwards in europe its Sephardim and Western Ashkenazim(german,dutch ashkenazim) who thought Eastern ashknazim backwards and stupid, and did not marry with them altho Sephardim and Western Ashkenazim did especially in places like Holland and South france,where both populations where present
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Post by Yankel on Oct 21, 2005 17:54:52 GMT -5
Is that wrong? Ok, how's this? Ashekenazi Jews are the surviving Y-Chromosome of Jews Will you stop talking about the 'Jewish Y-Chromosome' already? It doesn't exist. Arabs, Kurds, Iranians, Armenians, etc. have almost identical Y-chromosomes. Actually, many Western and Central European Ashkenazim have Middle Eastern MtDNA. Some Eastern European Ashkenazi Jews have it, too, but not as many.
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Post by Yankel on Oct 21, 2005 17:59:26 GMT -5
Sigmund Freud is a classic example. A classic example of your white washing. Anthropologist Carelton S. Coon's typical Ashkenazi:
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Post by Drooperdoo on Oct 21, 2005 18:51:29 GMT -5
Yankel, You need a break from this constant Jew business. I beg you to come out of the cold. Concentrate on your German side for a while; study the glories of Goethe, Nietzsche, Rilke; read up on the innovations that came out of Deutschland--like the jet engine, aspirin, barbichurates, the rocket; bask in the dignity of the philosophy that made Heidelberg famous, with men like Lichtenberg, Hegel, Schopenhauer, etc.
Take a Jew-break. You're lopsidedly self-conscious about your Middle-Eastern side. You also have a frosted side. Stop obsessing on your shredded wheat side. lol
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Post by IranianLion on Oct 21, 2005 20:23:28 GMT -5
A minority population almost always mixes with the host population altering itself in the process. The host population almost always is unaffected by this process. The Jews are no exception.
That's why Jews tend to resemble the appearance of their host populations. Many Ashkenazim resemble northern and eastern Europeans; many Separdim resemble southern Europeans and North Africans; many Mizrahim resemble their various Middle Eastern host populations. It's not evolution which happens over thousands of years.
From my own personal experience, I cannot tell the difference between Jewish and non-Jewish Iranians. It would be difficult to tell Iranian Jews like Katsav, Mofaz or Halutz apart from other Iranians (except perhaps Halutz who has a quasi-Assyrian appearance IMO).
As for IQ, IMO there is no way of singling out the genetic component from the environmental.
I think there is a theory that Ashkenazim are supposed to be more intelligent than other populations because they were pushed into "cognitive-reliant" trades such as accounting and money lending. According to this theory, intelligence was a selected characteristic for Ashkenazim far more than other populations. However, I don't think this applies in a capitalist society.
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Post by yigal on Oct 21, 2005 21:10:54 GMT -5
A minority population almost always mixes with the host population altering itself in the process. The host population almost always is unaffected by this process. The Jews are no exception. That's why Jews tend to resemble the appearance of their host populations. Many Ashkenazim resemble northern and eastern Europeans; many Separdim resemble southern Europeans and North Africans; many Mizrahim resemble their various Middle Eastern host populations. It's not evolution which happens over thousands of years. From my own personal experience, I cannot tell the difference between Jewish and non-Jewish Iranians. It would be difficult to tell Iranian Jews like Katsav, Mofaz or Halutz apart from other Iranians (except perhaps Halutz who has a quasi-Assyrian appearance IMO). As for IQ, IMO there is no way of singling out the genetic component from the environmental. I think there is a theory that Ashkenazim are supposed to be more intelligent than other populations because they were pushed into "cognitive-reliant" trades such as accounting and money lending. According to this theory, intelligence was a selected characteristic for Ashkenazim far more than other populations. However, I don't think this applies in a capitalist society. actually this is wrong both you and yankel are wrong in diff ways i dont know exactly how to explain this maybe melnorme can, Jews are not identical to their hosts populations and at the same time they are often not extremly alien, their is overap and certain features could be taken diffrent ways but their is an "ashkenazi" look despite not every single ashkenazi having it, and there is also a "sephardic" look simply put in a crowd of israelis u will spot a spectrum slowly changing in color but with simmilar features, that spectrum gets slightly contrasted by Arabs and by russians and ethiopians who often have distinct looks (altho some russians may not, and even some ethiopians can have "jewish" features) and at the same time i dont mean to say their is a feature that is exclusivly jewish, im just bad at explaining basically u can put an afram in a crowd of somalians and he may not stand out, because of natural varation but when u put 2 or 3 and say there are african americans amongst u pick them out, it may get easier knamean? either way genetics shows ashkenazim arent simply Europeans of the Jewish faith but a Hybrid population leaning more on the middle eastern side
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