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Post by Igu on Oct 12, 2005 17:13:27 GMT -5
Igu, I was mainly talking about the gulf region. I don't know how it is in Algeria or most Arab countries in Syria you can eat in public. you'd get bad looks if you are eating in a crowded area, but that'd be lack of respect in the first place imo... I assume you are in Algiers? is it kabyle land there? btw, I never heared about Kabyles before I came to this board... No algiers is not kabyle, but I am Algerian, my id, my passport and my nationality are algerian, and as far as I know Kabylie is in Ageria, many of my family members died fighting for it. So if it is not my land I'd like to be informed. BTW, Algiers was a Kabyle land before the arrival of Bani hilal, it was called mezghenna, in modern times it's been repopulated by Kabyles after 1962, nonetheless I do not deny it's "Arab statue".
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Post by syriano on Oct 12, 2005 17:36:37 GMT -5
so what is the aim of Kabyle people? and what's their % in Algeria?
do they want to get independence or "hekim zati" (I forgot the english word)?
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Post by Igu on Oct 12, 2005 18:13:35 GMT -5
so what is the aim of Kabyle people? and what's their % in Algeria? do they want to get independence or "hekim zati" (I forgot the english word)? I will not count the Kabyles outside Kabylie because they don't consider themselves Kabyles, they are generally more hateful than the Arabs towards us. so the percentage is about 10%, not that high but we are very present in the "algerian elite". since 1962 Kabyles want: -their language to be official without any democratic referendum (that is not negotiable, the rest are more or less negotiable). -democratic state. -freedom of speech. -secularism (islam must not be the religion of the state). -Federal states as in spain. Instead of having our language as official we obtained a ridiculous sentence in our new constition "Berber is a national language", it is inefficient, and nothing has changed. lately, the government promised to officialize our language, one week later, the president (Bouteflika) said no. either he likes kidding or he wants separatism. Personally, I like to respect other people's culture, my plan would be to divide Algeria into two federal state : -Secularist Kabylie. -Arabo-Islamic state. Arabo-Islamic state: They will implment sharia (Algerian arabs want an islamic republic, a coup d'etat did not allow them to do so, it resulted in 10 years of war.), they will be free to cut hands, stone and whip people, destroy musical instuments, killl each other, they will be very happy. -Secularist Kabylie: We will study Kabyle-berber at schools, with French and english as second languages, arabic will be optional. if one wants to go to the mosque, a gay shop, or a synagogue, he'd be able to do it, we will have a parlimant, a flag and a constitution. We will also have a separate economy, I won't be against the use of Euros or dollars. Israel will be one of our closest partners. If the Arabo-Islamic state want its independance, we will respect their choice. In 1991: the FIS (islamist political party) got 2/3 of the parliament's seats, in Kabylie they got Zero seats. In 1999: Kabyles boycotted the presidential elections (2% participants). In 2004: Kabyles boycotted the presidential elections (7 % participants). In 2005: Kabyles boycotted a referendum to grant amnesty to many Islamic militants (10 % participants). As you can see, there is a "pacification" of kabylie through time, (2%, 7%, 10%), They don't know that people's opinions are getting extreme. So, separatism? if things go the same as they are, I'd say in 50 years separatism would be a revendication shared by the majority.
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Post by atlantis on Oct 12, 2005 18:28:54 GMT -5
Silly thread started by (surpise, surprise) a Jew.
It's not forbidden to eat during Ramadan daylight in ALL muslim countries. For example the former president of Tunisia Bourguiba used to drink juice live on tv during Ramadan daylight.
I'm not defending those backward islamic societies but I can't stand zionist propaganda.
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Post by atlantis on Oct 12, 2005 18:38:46 GMT -5
Israel will be one of our closest partners. Nations want to be great allies with the USA, the E.U, China, ... But good luck to you in making a great and fruitfull partnership with isreal though
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Post by Igu on Oct 12, 2005 18:40:22 GMT -5
Israel will be one of our closest partners. Nations want to be great allies with the USA, the E.U, China, ... But good luck to you in making a great and fruitfull partnership with isreal though Next year I am going to visit Israel, hope they accept my Algerian passport
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Post by atlantis on Oct 12, 2005 18:46:19 GMT -5
Next year I am going to visit Israel, hope they accept my Algerian passport Make sure you visit some of the former rapists of your lands. Maybe you'll find some in Hebron, could give you a deja vu feeling.
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Post by Educate Me on Oct 12, 2005 18:47:15 GMT -5
Do you have enough resources, water, oild etc, in the kabylie area?
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Post by syriano on Oct 13, 2005 13:30:13 GMT -5
heh why do you want to make best allies with Israel?
btw, those Arabo Algerians as you call them, are they arabised berbers or something else?
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Post by Igu on Oct 13, 2005 13:31:32 GMT -5
Do you have enough resources, water, oild etc, in the kabylie area? The algerian government does not give any money to Kabylie, it can't get worse if there is an autonomy of the region. -We have water, Kabylie through its -private- companies is first in mineral resources. -Many towns take water from us. -We don't have oil, and as I said, Kabylie does not benefit from oil. -In 1990, algeria had to import olive-oil, now algeria exports olive oil thanks to Kabylie (private companies). Actually, we getting nothing from that oil : no investments, no public companies, unemployments reach 90%. they do it on purpose... All kabyles have to go to Algiers to find jobs (oil's money is used there), they get arabized... and it works.
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Post by Igu on Oct 13, 2005 13:38:41 GMT -5
heh why do you want to make best allies with Israel? They know how to treat with Arabs. 30% of them were arabized with the arrival of Bani hilal, 30% with the arrival of the french, and the rest got arabized after the independance of Algeria (a very quick process). Kabylie was 10 times bigger than in 1962, just for example: Boumerdes was 100% kabyle-sepaking, now it is 100% Arab speaking. So yes, most of them are Arabized Berbers, they don't speak Berber, they speak Arabic, they consider themselves arab, therefore they are Arabs. I don't want to call them something that might offense them.
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Post by syriano on Oct 13, 2005 13:45:35 GMT -5
heh why do you want to make best allies with Israel? They know how to treat with Arabs. ok whatever makes feel good
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Post by eufrenio on Oct 13, 2005 14:06:48 GMT -5
Igu, remember what happened to the Kurds after Gulf War I! The Americans and the Israelis can dump your people when it suits them.
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Post by Igu on Oct 13, 2005 14:12:56 GMT -5
Igu, remember what happened to the Kurds after Gulf War I! The Americans and the Israelis can dump your people when it suits them. People work according to their interests, that's normal and that's the rule of the jungle, we do not count on them to free us, but we would not refuse their help. Anyway, the kurds (of irak) are now a free people thanks to the USA.
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Post by eufrenio on Oct 13, 2005 14:31:51 GMT -5
The Kurds were massacred by Saddam after the Allies pulled out of Irak. That´s what will happen to the Kabyles. And now, well, Irak is a mess. Anything can happen. The Sunnis can take over once the US pulls out, and the Kurds don´t stand a chance.
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