States that banned "interracial" marriage.

[k5125]

Remember back in the 1950's about 17 or more states banned marriage between "races"?

Well how did these restrictions actually work? Was it solely between black and white? Consider these scenarios:

Could a Korean American marry an Irish American?

Could a black american marry a native american?

Could a lebanese american marry a scottish american?

Could an Italian American marry a Turkish american?

Who could "mulattos" (I don't like that word) marry?

[Mike the Jedi]

I'm sure it only applied to whites. I doubt they cared if a "nigger" banged an "Injun."

[k5125]

What about the Italian marrying the Turk? Would that be allowed under these laws?

[Mike the Jedi]

Good question, I don't know. Depends on whether or not Italians were included in the white category.

Maybe only Anglos or similar-looking Northern Europeans were considered eligible. Heck, there was even a time when the Irish were considered non-white, and were ridiculed as being backwards and inferior.

[Ilmatar]

I once read an article of an Italian man being imprisoned in Alabama for dating a "white" girl in the early 20th century... It seemed that many Southern Europeans were indeed considered black in the Southern States those times.

[nockwasright]

Seems the progressive fellows do advantageously shit in their pants, when it comes to sexual competition.

[MC anunnaki]

;D

I think you're on to something here, nock!

[Crimson Guard]

Even the Irish and Germans where treated badly(even up to WW2) and at certain times considered "Non-white" or "Inferior" to the Anglo-Saxon(English-Portestant) .

Southern and Eastern Euro's where trated badly cause of the Immigration of the 1900's,American Xenophobia combined with fear of lossing their established livelyhoods and change,so actually had more to do with Money and politics.

[Matthew]

Yeah, well look now. Irish, Italians, and Germans outnumber everybody else in the US. It's interesting but in some parts, and some people promoted the intermarriage of Whites, with the American Indian. If this happened, and there wasn't a lot of immigration from Europe. The average American might've been quite different in appearance.

[Crimson Guard]

hell also lots of times it had nothing to do with Ethnicity or Race or what have you... just religion..their was hatred against Roman Catholics..so always more than one factor.

[asdf]

matthios said:

Yeah, well look now. Irish, Italians, and Germans outnumber everybody else in the US. It's interesting but in some parts, and some people promoted the intermarriage of Whites, with the American Indian. If this happened, and there wasn't a lot of immigration from Europe. The average American might've been quite different in appearance.

And that worked out so well down south...

As to who could marry, around the time those laws were stricken down, there was this black judge or someone who couldn't marry his korean girlfriend or wasn't legally married to her. On the other hand, blacks often assimilated into american indian tribes and bred with them in these states.

[Scanderbeg]

It seemed that many Southern Europeans were indeed considered black in the Southern States those times.

Wha, wha, what?

[Hairless]

cheeks said:

I once read an article of an Italian man being imprisoned in Alabama for dating a "white" girl in the early 20th century... It seemed that many Southern Europeans were indeed considered black in the Southern States those times.

One thing to remember is that many Native Americans and Black mulattos "passed" as "Black Irish" or other Southern European races. I'm sure that does not explain all of the situations, but -for example- there is in my family history an example of some cousin in the early 1800s marrying a "Spanish" woman in an area where I doubt there was anyone actually from Spain (where there were a LOT of Native Americans). So I guess calling her Spanish was an attempt to conceal her true race. There was definitely a lot of bias against certain immigrant groups throughout history, although it often seemed to be more about class and culture than about pigmentation. There was a time when wealthy women sat around at tea parties and invested a lot of self-worth in the fact that they had ancestors they could trace to the American Revolution, more as a matter of excluding immigrants and setting themselves above than actually honoring those ancestors. Chinese and other Asian immigrants faced similar problems (and may still to some extent even from non-white Americans).

[Mimers]

khangard said:

cheeks said:

I once read an article of an Italian man being imprisoned in Alabama for dating a "white" girl in the early 20th century... It seemed that many Southern Europeans were indeed considered black in the Southern States those times.

One thing to remember is that many Native Americans and Black mulattos "passed" as "Black Irish" or other Southern European races. I'm sure that does not explain all of the situations, but -for example- there is in my family history an example of some cousin in the early 1800s marrying a "Spanish" woman in an area where I doubt there was anyone actually from Spain (where there were a LOT of Native Americans). So I guess calling her Spanish was an attempt to conceal her true race. There was definitely a lot of bias against certain immigrant groups throughout history, although it often seemed to be more about class and culture than about pigmentation. There was a time when wealthy women sat around at tea parties and invested a lot of self-worth in the fact that they had ancestors they could trace to the American Revolution, more as a matter of excluding immigrants and setting themselves above than actually honoring those ancestors. Chinese and other Asian immigrants faced similar problems (and may still to some extent even from non-white Americans).

I just want to say that the term "Black Irish" has nothing to do with african americans or mulattos. The term was used to describe an Irish person with black/raven hair. Ever heard of the black Irish rose? Well, it would be a beautiful Irish girl with black hair.

Also, I don't recall anything about the Irish not being considered "white" in those days. I do however recall that they were mistreated because they were catholics. When the first catholics came to an all protestant town, they would oogle at them as if they were from outer space. "Wow, look at those people, they're CATHOLICS!!!" I don't think that it had anything to do with skin colour, but everything to do with religion. If anyone has sources that factfully states that Irish were not considered 'white' let me know. That doesn't mean they were considered black either.

I don't think Southern Europeans were considered black back then either. They just weren't WASPs...

What wasn't considered a WASP back then doesn't necessarily mean it was considered 'black'. They were ignorant and racist to the nth degree, but not stupid.

[k5125]

mimidamoon said:

khangard said:

One thing to remember is that many Native Americans and Black mulattos "passed" as "Black Irish" or other Southern European races. I'm sure that does not explain all of the situations, but -for example- there is in my family history an example of some cousin in the early 1800s marrying a "Spanish" woman in an area where I doubt there was anyone actually from Spain (where there were a LOT of Native Americans). So I guess calling her Spanish was an attempt to conceal her true race. There was definitely a lot of bias against certain immigrant groups throughout history, although it often seemed to be more about class and culture than about pigmentation. There was a time when wealthy women sat around at tea parties and invested a lot of self-worth in the fact that they had ancestors they could trace to the American Revolution, more as a matter of excluding immigrants and setting themselves above than actually honoring those ancestors. Chinese and other Asian immigrants faced similar problems (and may still to some extent even from non-white Americans).

I just want to say that the term "Black Irish" has nothing to do with african americans or mulattos. The term was used to describe an Irish person with black/raven hair. Ever heard of the black Irish rose? Well, it would be a beautiful Irish girl with black hair.

Also, I don't recall anything about the Irish not being considered "white" in those days. I do however recall that they were mistreated because they were catholics. When the first catholics came to an all protestant town, they would oogle at them as if they were from outer space. "Wow, look at those people, they're CATHOLICS!!!" I don't think that it had anything to do with skin colour, but everything to do with religion. If anyone has sources that factfully states that Irish were not considered 'white' let me know. That doesn't mean they were considered black either.

I don't think Southern Europeans were considered black back then either. They just weren't WASPs...

What wasn't considered a WASP back then doesn't necessarily mean it was considered 'black'. They were ignorant and racist to the nth degree, but not stupid.

I think in the late ninenteenth century, Irish, Jews, and Italians were not white. I am not sure where I heard that from, so if anyone does have a source I would be interested.

Though there is a book out there called "How the Jews became White Folk" I think.

I think after WWII, all Jews in the US were white people, regardless of geographic origin.

Sephardic Jews are an interesting group though, in terms of "whiteness." Apparently some Sephardic Jews in the south were plantation owners and aristocrats who owned slaves, so obviously they were white people. But then later, maybe they were not viewed as such for a period, since ashkenazim weren't white in this country either for a time up until the 1920s and 30s I guess.