The problem of rigidly defining 'races'

[Charlie Bass]

'Negroid' is supposed to mean having a broad nose, everted thick lips, considerable prognathism, kinky hair and black skin. Using that type of reasoning, these Africans are *NOT* 'Negroid':















This is why the term 'Negroid' and the insane, rigid criteria applied to it neds to be discarded. These are all pure West Africans, the oft mentioned 'true home' of the 'Negroid'.

[Charlie Bass]

Some more 'non-Negroids' using the Pontikos dodonite-Pontikos antiquated anthropological definition of 'Negroid'





www.wenset.com/forum/viewtopic.php%3ft=5813&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

I guess fully 50% of West Africa is 'non-Negroid' using that rigid classification of Negroid. Come on Pontikos, tell these people are non-Negroid and therefore deny variation in West Africans.

[Mike the Jedi]

For flesh features like the nose and lips, it's not so much breadth, but shape, I think.

I recognize two distinct types of noses there. There is the snub nose with the upturned tip, exemplified on that Nigerian supermodel, and then there is the Negroid version of the hawk-nose, seen in the picture of the two women in the last picture of your first post.

I also think the rigidly defined criteria is pretty absurd, because variation takes a backseat to stereotyping of extreme features which may be typical, but not necessarily in complete combination. A Nigerian might have very thick lips and a very thin nose, for example.

[CooCooCachoo]

Ok...

She's Caucasian...



...The rest are Negroid though.

[Charlie Bass]

coocoocachoo said:

Ok...

She's Caucasian...

You wish.

[murphee]

They all look Negroid to me. Just as with Caucasoids and Mongoloids, there are very wide variations in physical features in Negroids.

[Mike the Jedi]

Exactamente, Murphee.

[Requiem]

Why is this even a debate?

[MC anunnaki]

Because some people seem to think that black Africans must all look alike. Any variation is "admixture" or something. I've never understood why people so readily admit variation in other races, but not in black Africans.

[greatness]

That, anunnaki, is because everybody judges on just skin color. THey see black and they think all black ppl look alike.This is BS. It is like saying all Asian look the same, or saying Iranians, arabs, and North Africans all look the same.

In fact a single city in Africa has more genetic variation than all other races combined (according to Spencer Wells). Africans have been here the longest and thus have the most variation.

[Charlie Bass]

I knew Mr. Pontikos was *NOT* going to ever respond to this thread. I think I've made my point clear that rigidly defining one 'race' and not doing so for the others is ludicrous.

[Dienekes]

All of them, as far as I can tell, appear to be racially Negroid. Of course, we can't use the diagnostic trait of hair curliness with men who have shaved hair or with women who often use hair straightening products.

[Charlie Bass]

admin said:

All of them, as far as I can tell, appear to be racially Negroid. Of course, we can't use the diagnostic trait of hair curliness with men who have shaved hair or with women who often use hair straightening products.

Oh, so they're all Negroid to you now huh? Look at the variation, but of course in the thread on Egypt, you restricted 'Negroid' to having only the most pronounced 'broad' phenotypes, such as extremely wooly hair, thick lips, broad noses and prognathism. I guess only when dealing with Egypt does the 'true' Negro' theory come into play. Only one woman used hair straightening products among those I post, but the focus wasn't her hair, it was here facial structure, so don't play wise with me.

[nordicyouth]

The more one tries to neatly define race, the more one discovers that the lines blur, or cross existing socio-cultural attitudes e.g. the increasing use of the term 'Brown' alongside White and Black, and the decreasing use of 'Red,' or 'Yellow.' And what 'Brown' consists of is still being worked out (Indian, Iranian, Arab, some Africans?).

At the end of the day, there are GENERALLY Whites, Blacks, perhaps Browns, etc., and many that fall in between - mixes, genetic anomalies, etc.

No 'White' person cares whether a Black person has a nose like this or like that. Black is black. Skin colour, facial features, etc - enough variables to generalize.

Generalization is all you can hope for. And it is less dependent on science than culture. For those that are unsure of their 'general' group, insecurity on their part and on their peers' part will lump them in one category or another.

I do not fit into any particular national phenotype, however I do fit into the Nordic subracial phenotype perfectly. Yet people cannot tell where I am from and make all types of wild guesses; proof that national ethnicity (mix of phenotypes) overrides subrace within a race.