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Post by lurker4now on Jun 14, 2005 5:29:07 GMT -5
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Post by amksa on Jun 14, 2005 5:43:04 GMT -5
this is impossible to guess... most Maghrebis in Europe don't consider themselves Berbers, but i cans tell you where are the more probable destination for a Berber : France (Kabyles, Chleuhs), Belgique (Chleuhs), Holland (mostly Riffans), Spain (Riffans), Italy. in France, most Maghrebis have French nationality, so it's impossible to estimate their number, because as far as i know, in France, Police and gouvernement aren't allowed to spot or classify French population by origin. there isn't racial census or classification like in USA. plus, people like me who consider themselves Berber and who know Berber language and culture become rare, compared to all the Berbers who forget their roots. |
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Post by lurker4now on Jun 14, 2005 5:58:05 GMT -5
so would you say in france that most "middle easterns" or "muslims" are of berber ancestry?
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Post by amksa on Jun 14, 2005 6:24:29 GMT -5
so would you say in france that most "middle easterns" or "muslims" are of berber ancestry? depends on what you're labelling middle easterns : North Africans aren't technically middle easterns, they are mostly Berber, in term of race, but culturally, they feel generally Arab, so i will not consider them Berber no more... Berber isn't a symbolic term : if someone stops to think of hilmself as Berber, he ceases to be Berber. I think that most Maghrebis in France, judging from the insults i've read and suffered in moroccan websites, are anti-Berber and brainwashed, some of them share the same prejudices that most North Africans form against Berber culture. like in Morocco, Maghrebis in France, even youngs, feel more close to Middle eastern than to their Berbers fellow citizens. |
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Post by lurker4now on Jun 14, 2005 6:28:42 GMT -5
so would you say in france that most "middle easterns" or "muslims" are of berber ancestry? depends on what you're labelling middle easterns : North Africans aren't technically middle easterns, they are mostly Berber, in term of race, but culturally, they feel generally Arab, so i will not consider them Berber no more... Berber isn't a symbolic term : if someone stops to think of hilmself as Berber, he ceases to be Berber. I think that most Maghrebis in France, judging from the insults i've read and suffered in moroccan websites, are anti-Berber and brainwashed, some of them share the same prejudices that most North Africans form against Berber culture. like in Morocco, Maghrebis in France, even youngs, feel more close to Middle eastern than to their Berbers fellow citizens. let me rephares that are most mulisms in france berber |
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Post by amksa on Jun 14, 2005 6:33:36 GMT -5
Berber, in France, in China, in Morocco, etc. are muslims, but most muslims in France aren't Berbers or feel their "Berberitude." There are Berber muslims in France, but don't forget that most Maghrebis think of themselves as Arab.
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