|
Post by topdog on May 28, 2005 13:13:49 GMT -5
And he should have done so, I agree, that would have been the honorable and right thing to do, but he caved in to pressure. Does that mean we should abandon his whole body of work? Not by a longshot. That's all I'm saying. Criticize the man all you like, but Races of Europe, despite its errors, is still a supreme resource for anyone interested in physical anthropology. You must admit that, at the very least. Races of Europe has no real significance today and I proved it when I spanked racialreality for quoting from Races of Europe that Somalis, Tutsis, Masais, and 'Neanderthal-Hybrids' were white men. That stuff is very obsolete and discredited. There are other books out there to reference besides Coon, one has to look.
|
|
|
Post by lurker4now on May 28, 2005 13:15:40 GMT -5
Races of Europe has no real significance today and I proved it when I spanked racialreality for quoting from Races of Europe that Somalis, Tutsis, Masais, and 'Neanderthal-Hybrids' were white men. That stuff is very obsolete and discredited. There are other books out there to reference besides Coon, one has to look. Show us what Coon exactly say's about Somalis,Tutsis and Masais.
|
|
|
Post by mike2 on May 28, 2005 13:21:33 GMT -5
Yes, but you're judging the entire book based on what Coon had to say about Africa. Yes, most of the black white men stuff is discredited and easily ignored. But look beyond that, and you'll see why Coon cannot be so lightly thrown aside. His observations about the peoples and racial types of Europe are perfectly fine and make for good reading.
He should never be used as the only resource and nothing he writes can be taken as gospel because he wrote Races of Europe half a century ago. Herodotus fudged up on his histories more than Coon did in Races of Europe, but Herodotus is still respected for what good information he did record. I think it's only fair to give Coon that same motion of generosity. I have every confidence that Coon believed everything he wrote. He was a coward, yes, but still a scientist in his own right.
|
|
|
Post by topdog on May 28, 2005 13:23:12 GMT -5
Show us what Coon exactly say's about Somalis,Tutsis and Masais. Look in this thread www.egyptsearch.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/002003.html"Somali Racial Type: "FIG. 1 (2 views). A Somali from the tribe of Mahmud Grade, British Somaliland. This Somali represents the closest approximation to a white man found among his people. The extreme narrowness of his head and face, the straight nasal profile, and the prominence of his chin, mark him as less negroid than many of his fellows. At the same time his skin is nearly black, his hair curly but not frizzy. The type to which this Somali belongs is ancient in East Africa, as shown by the excavations of Leakey in Kenya. It is a specialized, locally differentiated Mediterranean racial form." “Both of the Gamble’s Cave skulls seem to fully or nearly “white” in the skeletal sense, the Oldoway is, in a way difficult to analyze, perceptibly Negroid. Many modern tribes of East Africa, including the Somalis, and Masai, and the upper classes of others such as the Bahimas show today the same general features which are found in these pluvial period skulls.
|
|
|
Post by mike2 on May 28, 2005 13:25:17 GMT -5
Let me put it this way: if someone hasn't proven something Coon says as wrong, then that information is still fair game.
His belief that the East African is a Caucasoid type has been proven wrong and discredited. His belief that Dinarics are a cross between Alpines/Borrebies and Atlanto-Mediterraneans has not been disproven and in fact is widely accepted as a factual and perfectly good conclusion. Rightly divide the good from the bad. Scrutinize the information, not the man or the entire body of work because that's just a waste of time.
|
|
|
Post by NuSapiens on May 28, 2005 13:31:16 GMT -5
But at the expense of putting down others? I'm from the deep south so for me segregationists are vermin, I'm sorry. Black southerners had to endure alot because of lowlife segregationists wanting to preserve their 'phenotype' and their screwed up 'way of life' of white over black. Chuck D of Public Enemy wrote a book called "Fight the Power," where he argued that in some ways, desegregation has hurt African-Americans by dissolving their traditional communities and turning them into ghetto-dwelling consumers-workers, for the profit of a few (white) men. Instead of supporting local black communities, their dollars are spent on products by Nike and others: ultimately making them a new kind of slave.
|
|
|
Post by lurker4now on May 28, 2005 13:34:29 GMT -5
Chuck D of Public Enemy wrote a book called "Fight the Power," where he argued that in some ways, desegregation has hurt African-Americans by dissolving their traditional communities and turning them into ghetto-dwelling consumers-workers, for the profit of a few (white) men. Instead of supporting local black communities, their dollars are spent on products by Nike and others: ultimately making them a new kind of slave. look at who you are quoting chuck d.
|
|
|
Post by topdog on May 28, 2005 13:39:34 GMT -5
Chuck D of Public Enemy wrote a book called "Fight the Power," where he argued that in some ways, desegregation has hurt African-Americans by dissolving their traditional communities and turning them into ghetto-dwelling consumers-workers, for the profit of a few (white) men. Instead of supporting local black communities, their dollars are spent on products by Nike and others: ultimately making them a new kind of slave. It hasn't hurt us as a community, it has bettered us in some respects, but Chuck D is correct about how some African Americans spend their money. But that in itself has nothing to do with desegregation, thats just people wasting their money on things they really don't need. Blacks do support black businesses like Karl Kani, FUBU, Mecca, Rocawear, etc so what he[Chuck D] said wasn't even half the story. Chuck D even wore Nikes himself!
|
|
|
Post by lurker4now on May 28, 2005 13:40:33 GMT -5
Look in this thread www.egyptsearch.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/002003.html"Somali Racial Type: "FIG. 1 (2 views). A Somali from the tribe of Mahmud Grade, British Somaliland. This Somali represents the closest approximation to a white man found among his people. The extreme narrowness of his head and face, the straight nasal profile, and the prominence of his chin, mark him as less negroid than many of his fellows. At the same time his skin is nearly black, his hair curly but not frizzy. The type to which this Somali belongs is ancient in East Africa, as shown by the excavations of Leakey in Kenya. It is a specialized, locally differentiated Mediterranean racial form." “Both of the Gamble’s Cave skulls seem to fully or nearly “white” in the skeletal sense, the Oldoway is, in a way difficult to analyze, perceptibly Negroid. Many modern tribes of East Africa, including the Somalis, and Masai, and the upper classes of others such as the Bahimas show today the same general features which are found in these pluvial period skulls. You said he called them white men and from what you provided he does not call them white.He is hypothesizing. look up the word "hypothesis".
|
|
|
Post by lurker4now on May 28, 2005 13:45:14 GMT -5
It hasn't hurt us as a community, it has bettered us in some respects, but Chuck D is correct about how some African Americans spend their money. But that in itself has nothing to do with desegregation, thats just people wasting their money on things they really don't need. Blacks do support black businesses like Karl Kani, FUBU, Mecca, Rocawear, etc so what he[Chuck D] said wasn't even half the story. Chuck D even wore Nikes himself! I find it odd that NuSapiens uses something from a rapper rather than someone who is a scholar.its like me using john lennon's view on world peace.
|
|
|
Post by topdog on May 28, 2005 13:49:08 GMT -5
You said he called them white men and from what you provided he does not call them white.He is hypothesizing. look up the word "hypothesis". I can provide more This is from the Table of Contents in Coon's Races of Europe: Chapter II: Pleistocene White Men (1) Introducing Homo Sapiens (2) Pleistocene Climate (3) Sapiens Men of the Middle Pleistocene (4) Non-Sapiens Pleistocene Fossil Men (5) The Neanderthal Hybrids of Palestine(6) Upper Palaeolithic Man in Europe, the Evidence as a Whole (7) Chronological and Geographical Differentiation of the European Aurignacian Group (8) Upper Palaeolithic Hunters of North Africa (9) Aurignacian Man in East Africa(10) The Magdalenians (11) Upper Palaeolithic Man in China (12) Summary and Conclusions From (12) Summary and Conclusions: (1) Homo sapiens was fully evolved as early as the mid-Pleistocene, if not earlier. (2) The earliest Homo sapiens known, as represented by several examples from Europe and Africa, was an ancestral long-headed white man of short stature and moderately great brain size.(3) The negro group probably evolved parallel to this white strain, from a related sapiens ancestor. At what point the ancestors of negroes and whites diverged is not known. Now tell me this isn't obsolete trash!
|
|
|
Post by mike2 on May 28, 2005 13:54:36 GMT -5
Have you disproven the entire book? No. Only the parts we already know are based on obsolete and discredited information.
|
|
|
Post by Crimson Guard on May 28, 2005 14:08:21 GMT -5
Have you disproven the entire book? No. Only the parts we already know are based on obsolete and discredited information. >>
He keeps running over the same ground...Science is always expanding and new things are being learnt,its part of the process...Coon disproved other popular theories before his time when he was active...
No one here is argueing that "some" of Coon's work is obsolete,but some of it is stil substatiated and factual...Unfortunatily this cannot be left as it is,because our Charlie Bass here keeps, basically saying Coon is an outdated idiot and outright ignoring all his postive contributions and conclusions,based on little more than some biased grudge basis he holds against the author.
|
|
|
Post by mike2 on May 28, 2005 14:13:35 GMT -5
Yeah, it's only natural that a book written in 1939 is going to be filled with glaring errors. What Races of Europe needs is revision. The reason that RoE is called upon is because physical anthropology hit a slump in the wake of our politically correct era of race denial. There are very few major sources out there to use outside of Coon, Angel, Hooton, Eicksteidt, and the gang that can be used for the purposes of taxonomy. What all of these works need is modern revision. But I don't see that happening any time soon. So we have to do it in the meantime.
|
|
|
Post by Crimson Guard on May 28, 2005 14:31:11 GMT -5
<What all of these works need is modern revision.>
HA,but just as long as its fair,true and unbiased..but useually revisionism isnt....so I'am not really a big fan. Besides I like the original books,which arent tampered with,even if I dont like some of what is in them.
|
|