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Post by mike2 on Apr 16, 2005 14:58:08 GMT -5
Whatever the sentiment maybe and regardless of Israel's historical record of existence in antiquity, I don't think the Palestinians whose families have lived on the land since way before WWII or even before "anti-Semitism" ever became a word should have to relocate to some Palestinians-only zone if they don't want to. Nobody should be forced out of their homeland. I realize that there is no other choice but for the Israeli Jews and Palestinians to live side by side but they both have to learn to get along and come to some kind of consensus without dragging all of the rest of us into it and thus provoking the hatred of neighboring Arab groups. They can have separate areas to live if they must. But don't drag the U.S. into that mess. The U.N. should deal with it if the Palestinians and Israelis can't.
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Post by Yankel on Apr 16, 2005 15:04:46 GMT -5
Indeed, Zionist is a word with many possible connotations, both positive and negative, so I suppose Jewish Supremacist or Judeosupremacist if you like one-word terms is better when you want to talk about the bad or the racist Jews who could care less for anyone else besides their own people. It has nothing to do with Jewish supremacism, as I and others have explained. It's simple. You're either Zionist or you're not. Zionism doesn't require that you subscribe to a sepcific political ideology or be Jewish. White American Evangelical Christians, for example, are some of Israel's biggest supporters.
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Post by mike2 on Apr 16, 2005 15:06:16 GMT -5
That's a flawed analogy. America is a multicultural nation. Israel is the Jewish homeland. Moreover, there are over a million Arab citizens in Israel. Hey, Canaan is also multicultural. Jews and Arabs live in that region. And you're right, Israel is the Jewish homeland. But it's also become the Palestinian Arab's homeland in the same vein America is the Afro-American's homeland. No blacks I know but Marcus Garvey and company would ever want to go back to Africa. America is their home now. Just as it is the home of European-descended Americans. We've all learned to live together. White American Evangelical Christians, for example, are some of Israel's biggest supporters. Only because these people believe that the Jews are God's chosen people, which I think is ridiculous for any Christian to believe. I wish these evangelists would support the Palestinians, too. They have just as much a right to exist on that land.
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Post by Yankel on Apr 16, 2005 15:16:05 GMT -5
Whatever the sentiment maybe and regardless of Israel's historical record of existence in antiquity, I don't think the Palestinians whose families have lived on the land since way before WWII or even before "anti-Semitism" ever became a word should have to relocate to some Palestinians-only zone if they don't want to. They don't have to. It's funny that you mention it, though, because Jewish families in what will be Palestine are already being forced to relocate. We're talking about Jewish communities that existed before 'Palestinian' was applied to Arabs in the region. Are you alluding to the Iraq war?
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Post by Yankel on Apr 16, 2005 15:27:52 GMT -5
Hey, Canaan is also multicultural. Canaan doesn't exist. However, Lebanon, Syria, Israel, the PA and Jordan do. I think the fact that Jews aren't allowed to live in any of those countries puts things in context, especially when you consider the 1 million plus Arabs in Israel.
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Post by mike2 on Apr 16, 2005 15:35:20 GMT -5
We're talking about Jewish communities that existed before 'Palestinian' was applied to Arabs in the region. Exactly... did this whole Jew-vs.-Muslim problem exist before Jews from the outside started immigrating into the region? I'm just curious, cause I really don't know. I'm not an expert on ethnology of the region. I just know that racially, Oriental Jews and Palestinian Arabs aren't all that different at all. They are all partially if not somewhat fully descended from the same stock.
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Post by k5125 on Apr 16, 2005 15:37:54 GMT -5
How many Jews still live in Baghdad btw? I heard it was like only 18 Jews or something.
I think before they fled baghdad they made up 1/5 of Baghdad's population.
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Post by k5125 on Apr 16, 2005 15:43:39 GMT -5
Exactly... did this whole Jew-vs.-Muslim problem exist before Jews from the outside started immigrating into the region? I'm just curious, cause I really don't know. I'm not an expert on ethnology of the region. I just know that racially, Oriental Jews and Palestinian Arabs aren't all that different at all. They are all partially if not somewhat fully descended from the same stock. I think its existed for centuries, sometimes in periods of remission like it was in europe with the jews and christians. Racially there really isn't much difference between most Jews and palestinian arabs actually whether they be oriental or not. It also depends on what you define as "oriental." I think sometimes a lot of Spanish, Turkish Jews who lived in Palestine for quite some time got the label "oriental" simply because they were sephardic, and a lot of their customs were the same. Also Moroccans definately aren't oriental. But racially their Jews aren't any different from the oriental ones. Eastern Europeans have oriental features many times too.
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Post by mike2 on Apr 16, 2005 15:44:59 GMT -5
Eastern Europeans have oriental features many times too. That's certainly true. One look at Oded Fehr confirms that.
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Post by k5125 on Apr 16, 2005 15:46:32 GMT -5
That's certainly true. One look at Oded Fehr confirms that. Yes although at the same time Andy Dick isn't exactly oriental lol.
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Post by Yankel on Apr 16, 2005 16:20:20 GMT -5
That's certainly true. One look at Oded Fehr confirms that. Here's another example... That's Jacob Arabo (an Eastern European Jew), a famous jeweler in the US.
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Post by k5125 on Apr 16, 2005 16:26:17 GMT -5
Thats Jacob the Jeweler? Bwahaha Man, that guy is friggn dark! Whats with the last name Arabo though? Thats very ironic!
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Post by captainusa1 on Apr 17, 2005 7:02:20 GMT -5
It's not fair to blame Jews for offensive entertainment. That's a mischaracterization of the cultural division in the United States. The present division is between "progressives" and "traditionalists". Many American Jews fall into the latter category. It's true that some secular Jews have contributed to our cultural decline, but the same thing can be said about some nominal Christians. Jews have no monopoly on this just like Southerners have no monopoly on racism. The choices one makes, not the group to which one belongs, makes all the difference. BTW, is there a Jewish version of the Klan? I ask because of previous references to Gentile cattle, Black "apes", and American "cowards".
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Post by k5125 on Apr 17, 2005 10:12:04 GMT -5
No, there is no Jewish version of the Klan.
Although most people that talk like that are associated with Jewish Defense League and such. They pretty much don't like anybody thats gentile. But especially blacks because of tensions in brooklyn.
The group is very controversial because its been successful in fighting anti-semitism in new york, but its also lead to a form of jewish supremacism in my opinion. The people are assholes, and sometimes downright racist.
They don't go hunting for black people like the Klan does, but if blacks bother them, they sometimes use it as an excuse to be racist back.
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Post by nockwasright on Apr 17, 2005 11:25:26 GMT -5
I agree that Jews in general promote multiculturalism because it makes them feel more protected from future violence against them. Actually multiculturalism is promoted by everyone in American show business, and by almost all high status, learned Americans. So couldn't it be that Jews just happen to be overepresented in this categories, within which they are acting exactly as all the others?
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