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Post by topdog on Apr 14, 2005 2:32:09 GMT -5
The Harlem Renaissance. It had all the elements of rich culture and heritage and is distinctly African-American in origin. Please read this link Igu www.csustan.edu/english/reuben/pal/chap9/9intro.htmlNot that I had to prove anything, but I wanted to show you an example of African-American culture and also to show you that African-Americans don't have to make up lies or steal other peoples culture and achievments in order to have something to feel proud about. |
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Post by nockwasright on Apr 14, 2005 3:54:32 GMT -5
Given that the existence of a distinct African American culture is self evident to the unbiased eye, and doesn't need to be proved, I size the opportunity of this thread to ask if some agrees on this:
is such culture completely obsessed by racism?
I got this idea mainly from Spike Lee films, but also from AA music, AA slang etc. AA culture makes me think of someone who suffered a humiliation that he just can't forget, and that will never be at ease with the people who caused or just witnessed such humiliation whatever he or them do.
I mean, AA have to live in the society that not very long ago branded them as inferior. I think that their restlessness and anger (that seems evident to me, but of course some may question this) is the proof that it is not human to get over racism, when such racism is humiliating. I make this distinction as some kind of racism are scary and hateful but not humiliating, as the one against Jews. What can not be overcome is the humiliation.
I am not an expert of AA culture so this is just a thought based on what everybody knows of such culture. What do you think, Charlie Bass?
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Post by nordicyouth on Apr 14, 2005 8:24:32 GMT -5
Yes. Does the African-American Church exist independently of the 'White' Church if there is one, or does it only exist out of necessity i.e. African-Americans not being allowed in 'White' Churches?
While it is in part indigenous, African-American culture is too dependent on slavery and racism and is highly dichotomized to White culture i.e. defined more by what it is NOT, than what it IS.
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Post by murphee on Apr 14, 2005 11:58:50 GMT -5
It is difficult for a people to get over humiliation, slavery or genocide. Members of the group tend to obsess about the wrongs done in the past, even as the generations pass. I know; I'm a Jew.
It's just the way it is. Members of other groups can get annoyed about it, wishing the whining would end and that people would move on.
I'm not saying this behavior is good or bad, just that it is common. It may actually be an ingrained defense mechanism to attempt to prevent future abuse of one's group.
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Post by mike2 on Apr 14, 2005 13:34:00 GMT -5
Amen to that, Charlie, the Harlem Renaissance is certainly its own and I'm proud to know it is considered as part of American history in general and not footnoted to merely some black thing that happened years ago that isn't worth remembering. It was a very important part of an enlightening age for this country and distinctly black American.
It is true though that the racial fabric of our American culture today is too defensive. People don't forget about slavery and segregation over night, even if they themselves did not live through it. But all wounds heal eventually. I hardly doubt a Pole would harbor a grudge against Italians because of the Romans that called the former's Polish ancestors "slaves" in antiquity, from whence we derive our word "Slav." White men have never had a monopoly on slavery and old wounds will heal if we let them and are educated about what really happened and who was really to blame (slavery is a sin of mankind for instance) for all the suffering of past ages. There is no reason to feel guilty for something you had no control over nor feel uncomfortable when discussing these topics.
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Post by topdog on Apr 15, 2005 2:22:52 GMT -5
Yes. Does the African-American Church exist independently of the 'White' Church if there is one, or does it only exist out of necessity i.e. African-Americans not being allowed in 'White' Churches? The 'Black Church' came into being as a result of how blacks were treated and taught in white churches during slavery. White dominated churches during slavery always stressed scripture in the Bible that says servants should be obedient to their masters and they frequently used to the Bible to justify slavery. Blacks like Richard Allen saw such religious ideology as preposterous and contra to abolition of slavery: how can one even talk about being free and practice a religion at the same time that stresses justification of them being enslaved? Not to mention, blacks had to sit in separate sections in church away from whites. I disagree, I do not base my life on slavery and racism but in America this simply is a fact of history. For 80 years **AFTER** slavery blacks were marginalised by Jim Crow legislation, poll taxes to keep us voting, lynchings and threats of being lynched, and flat out institutionalised racism. That isn't to say that all was hopeless. African-Americans simply had to adapt and adjust to conditions that were not favorable. African-American history isn't alone in being partially grounded in racism , American history itself is. |
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Post by topdog on Apr 15, 2005 2:32:04 GMT -5
Given that the existence of a distinct African American culture is self evident to the unbiased eye, and doesn't need to be proved I agree, I just wanted to give Igu a small lesson in African-American history. No, its more about economics. Originally AA music was our way of telling the world and the country of our pain and struggles but lately its just commercialised and more of a business. Even gospel music has become commercialised[Kirk Franklin e.g.], which I hate. In a way you're correct, but I think the main reason the anger exists is because America in general has not properly adressed race and racism, its something nobody wants to discuss in depth. Some people think racism is a thing of the past simply because blacks aren't living under the same Jim Crow type legislation that lasted for 100 years after slavery. Thats something that needs to be discussed in opinion, very badly. |
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Post by nockwasright on Apr 15, 2005 9:33:35 GMT -5
In a way you're correct, but I think the main reason the anger exists is because America in general has not properly adressed race and racism, its something nobody wants to discuss in depth. Some people think racism is a thing of the past simply because blacks aren't living under the same Jim Crow type legislation that lasted for 100 years after slavery. Thats something that needs to be discussed in opinion, very badly. Thanks for the answer. I was thinking mainly to films as Jungle Fever, or Do The Right Thing, were there are good intentions of getting along by both "parties" (meaning the AA charachter and the Italian American one), but "society" (represented by police), remembers the Black man the humiliation, and wrecks the relationship. I find the theme of humiliation and anger in African American community very interesting. By the way, the racist/racist leaning or maybe just not PC American literature on Blacks, always depicts them as more agressive than any other race (the testosterone argument, etc.), grounding this partially on the criminal records and on a what appear to be a widespread perception in the USA. Such perception may be distorsive, as it does not factor the resentment typical of AA culture. Actually there are many SSA immigrants in my country, and they are perceived as less aggressive than other immigrants who are much closer to us genetically and culturally. |
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Post by Springa on Apr 15, 2005 14:22:24 GMT -5
When people accuse blacks of being incapable of creating higher culture, the answer should always be "Duke Ellington - now shut the hell up".
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Post by Dodona Underground on Apr 17, 2005 16:24:16 GMT -5
By the way, the racist/racist leaning or maybe just not PC American literature on Blacks, always depicts them as more agressive than any other race (the testosterone argument, etc.), grounding this partially on the criminal records and on a what appear to be a widespread perception in the USA. Keep in mind that white Americans seem to have an insatiable appetite for "the sobbing school of Negrohood," black revolutionists, puritan guilt and inappropriate compassion--i.e., bullshit. We now have an entire popular culture devoted to young blacks expressing various forms of anger. It's a boom market. And it's all leading nowhere for blacks because white Americans aren't the least bit afraid of black Americans as a revolutionary class. It's fake fear which is exciting but safe, like fear of chupacabra or the curse of the mummy. |
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Post by nockwasright on Apr 18, 2005 3:44:34 GMT -5
Keep in mind that white Americans seem to have an insatiable appetite for "the sobbing school of Negrohood," black revolutionists, puritan guilt and inappropriate compassion--i.e., bullshit. We now have an entire popular culture devoted to young blacks expressing various forms of anger. It's a boom market. And it's all leading nowhere for blacks because white Americans aren't the least bit afraid of black Americans as a revolutionary class. It's fake fear which is exciting but safe, like fear of chupacabra or the curse of the mummy. Very interesting. Well I see the things from far, and maybe I got a wrong picture. I figured White Americans picture Blacks as agressive, and are "afraid" of them not as a revolucionary force, but as someone who can harm you in daily life. That the relationship Black/White in USA is going nowhere good, I too got this impression, from what I know. |
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Post by SensoUnico on Apr 18, 2005 4:12:59 GMT -5
I was thinking about what Murphee wrote and it is a bit like losing someone you love. Friends are often understanding but they do not feel your pain and loss, and they will stop being understanding if the grief goes on too long. They will stop calling and start avoiding you. Is that not the situation of the black Americans or Jews going on about slavery, discrimination and holocausts. The sympathy has run out, and everyone is not calling you and is avoiding you.
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Post by Dodona Underground on Apr 18, 2005 4:25:57 GMT -5
I figured White Americans picture Blacks as agressive, and are "afraid" of them not as a revolucionary force, but as someone who can harm you in daily life. I believe that you're right, nockwasright (btw, Nock was right. Good to see another classical liberal here.). But random common criminality isn't really as scary to white Americans as would be some sort of mass revolt. All this angry protest culture foolishly tries to conflate the mystique of the criminal with the mystique of the revolutionist. White Americans enjoy it but don't fall for it. They merely stay away from bad neighborhoods, lobby for more police protection, talk about how compassionate and guilty they feel, and enjoy the danger from afar. Blacks get nothing in return but pariah status and the chance to be someone's pity project. |
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Post by Tautamo on Apr 18, 2005 5:08:21 GMT -5
blacks need to do what other american ethnic groups do stick together.voice outrage against other black americans sorta like
the promble is white kids like this stuff.where there is $$ to be made its not going to stop anytime soon.
its not about pointing fingers to a group of people and diverting responsibility its about good parenting.the 'family' is dying in the 21first century. no mom and pop.
cohabiting is growing (just look at northern europe)
but then again who the hell really knows why
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