Your Racial Identity in America...!!!!!!!

[santana]

i know alot of egyptians who live in the states and are american.. whenver i talk to them it was to be in english because they dont know arabic and they if u ask them what their nationality is they say american and never egyptian... its just odd because i am in canada but i never ever say yes im canadian.. i always say im egyptian and i speak arabic etc... do u think that americans who have recently immigrated etc. should just deny their roots or its not important any more or what.. its just a curious question...

[alexandrian]

I think they should adopt an American identity in conjunction with other identities. Nothing bothers me more than to see Mexican-Americans parading through the streets of America in Mexican jerseys waving Mexican flags after Mexico beats America. It's just overkill. Same thing with Senegalese in France when Senegal beat France.

[santana]

yes but why is it that here in canada we dont have that.. i think its because canadas policy is multiculturalism where as Americas policy is melting pot... ex. here in canada alot of ppl no jokes.. speak their native language better than english even tho they are second generation immigrants or even third etc....

[Dodona Underground]

Alexandrian said:

I think they should adopt an American identity in conjunction with other identities.

He's right, Santana. My favorite example which I'm probably wrong about is the Sicilian-American. Nobody assimilated more gracefully to a culture that wasn't his own. And when I say gracefully, I mean that he didn't forget his heritage and held on to what seemed better from Sicily. And, though he might have lived in mainly "ethnic" neighborhoods, he didn't stay isolated there. He became a patriotic American. He neither tried too hard to assimilate nor did he try too hard to avoid it. And nature took its course.

On the other hand, Sicilians are Christians so it may not be a perfect analogy. EDIT: Sorry, I forgot about Coptic Christians. But you understand what I'm saying?

I think that it's a damn good question and topic. Everybody talks about immigration but nobody talks about assimilation.

[buddyrydell]

GreatCaesarsGhost! said:

He's right, Santana. My favorite example which I'm probably wrong about is the Sicilian-American. Nobody assimilated more gracefully to a culture that wasn't his own. And when I say gracefully, I mean that he didn't forget his heritage and held on to what seemed better from Sicily. And, though he might have lived in mainly "ethnic" neighborhoods, he didn't stay isolated there. He became a patriotic American. He neither tried too hard to assimilate nor did he try too hard to avoid it. And nature took its course.

On the other hand, Sicilians are Christians so it may not be a perfect analogy. EDIT: Sorry, I forgot about Coptic Christians. But you understand what I'm saying?

I think that it's a damn good question and topic. Everybody talks about immigration but nobody talks about assimilation.

I really like the way you stated that Caesar. Sicilians are a very proud people who have resisted against wave after wave of invader. Many of the invaders became Sicilians naturally, so Sicilians have seen both sides of the spectrum very well. Invaders assimilated into Sicilians while at the same time, the Sicilian culture was retained as others adopted a Sicilian identity. Here in America, Sicilian-Americans have been staunch supporters of U.S. policies and identify with America 100%, though at the same time never forgetting their roots.

This is also true of many other groups as well. Look at how successful many immigrants and their descendants from the Middle East, Asia, and Latin America have become in the recent decades. Hard work combined with a good sense of familial loyalty/cultural identity is the healthiest way to go imho.

[santana]

i agree totally with both of your replies... i have noticed that many ethnic groups in america have also tried to isolate themselves from american society... however.. when it comes to middle eastern americans.. its a bit hard to find a middle ground between the two cultures which are like oil and water.. also middle easterners are very recent immigrants and still keep very much in touch with their homelands unlike some other ethnic groups who came to america and forgot everything else behind them... i also believe that one should find a middle ground because one will find that immigrants are sort of ALIENS.. they dont belong in their homelands anymore because their minds and mentalities have changed to be more open (usually) and yet they dont fit as TRUE americans (especially if they are not white, or are recent immigrants) its those ppl that often find them selves in limbo with their racial identities...!!

Use uppercase and punctuation as needed, please

[Dodona Underground]

Thanks, Buddy. Welcome back.

Santana, I'd like to make it clear that my post was a response to the original topic of the thread "Should americans forget their roots," not racial identity in America.

[racer1]

santana said:

i know alot of egyptians who live in the states and are american.. whenver i talk to them it was to be in english because they dont know arabic and they if u ask them what their nationality is they say american and never egyptian... its just odd because i am in canada but i never ever say yes im canadian.. i always say im egyptian and i speak arabic etc... do u think that americans who have recently immigrated etc. should just deny their roots or its not important any more or what.. its just a curious question...

It is called assimilation. I was discussing about this with a Canadian friend in another gaming forum I hang out in awhile back. He’s Anglo-Franco-Polish descent. If this country has fed, clothed you, housed you, and nurtured you when you were sick, then you should really call yourself AMERICAN or CANADIAN or where ever you reside. If you don’t accept that you’re an American or Canadian first, then you should go back to your ancestral homeland. This is a pluralistic country. It’s not like in Europe, Middle East, or Asia where they’re all a homogenous population and a source of immigration to the New World. My Canadian friend in the other forum told me about problems of new immigrants adapting to Canadian life. If war happens between both countries, whose side would you take your family’s new homeland that raised you or your ancestral homeland that your family left decades ago? 1/3 of American troops were of German and Italian descent in WW2. They showed where their loyalties lied including the most famous German American of all, General and later President Dwight D. Eisenhower. Many Japanese Americans also served with loyalty in the US Armed Forces in WW2 despite discrimination of their families in those “detention” camps.

[racer1]

santana said:

yes but why is it that here in canada we dont have that.. i think its because canadas policy is multiculturalism where as Americas policy is melting pot... ex. here in canada alot of ppl no jokes.. speak their native language better than english even tho they are second generation immigrants or even third etc....

It’s because Canadians teach two languages at schools both French and English since both English and French settlers founded that country. English speaking Christian Pilgrims founded this country. So they should learn English first. They have to adapt. You can still celebrate your heritage at home or among your ethnic community and still speak your language. I speak some tagalog to my grandmother who doesn’t speak english and I practice it with these older Filipino-American workers at work but not in front of english speaking truckers or english speaking fellow workers. That would be rude. Your ethnic community can still celebrate your ethnic holidays like Greek Independence Day, Cinco de Mayo, St. Patrick’s Day, Oktoberfest, whatever. Some Americans I know still speak their ancestral language like German, Greek, Tagalog, Korean, Italian, Polish, Arabic etc at home even though they were born here. It depends on the family’s responsibility to teach them their ancestral language and culture at home but sometimes some immigrant families are too busy at work to teach this. Also, if they start out teaching them their ancestral language at a young age while they are going to school where they teach english only they’re going to be confused. This country wants you to learn English first. They shouldn’t provide extra time or pull you aside to learn your own language. Do that at home or at your ethnic community's center.

[nordicyouth]

Having said this, it seems that Canada's recent preference of multiculturalism over dominant conformity (i.e. to Anglo-Saxon standards) has not resulted in nearly the type of social upheaval as in the United States, which supposedly provides the immigrant with a new national identity and sense of nationalism.

I think it is quite obvious that the melting pot in America has failed, namely because it rests on socio-economic success i.e. class. At most, it suggests to all that previous national, tribal, religious, and ideological committments can be subordinated to the 'American Dream,' which holds that anyone can attain material success in the United States, while elsewhere people are hindered by such non-transferable divisions as race, ethnicity, nationality, colour, etc.

Moving away from the traditional aristocratic notion of class, it is easy to see why the United States is the most 'classicist' of countries, if only because this difference is the most important.*

I think there will be great social upheaval on the North American continent, mostly for reasons of race and class, and it will affect Canada's seemingly peaceful society, but it will originate in America, which will play 'Germany' in a very nasty '30 Years War.'

*I'm excluding racial and ethnic tensions here because those are prevalent everywhere else.

**Sicilian-Americans are the greatest immigrants in America? Did I hear that correctly? One can't update this forum without posters slipping in some drivel about southern Europeans (Mediterranean anthro. type) and their descendants, and others echoing it.

Sicilian-Americans are no 'better' immigrants than most that have come to the United States. Strangely enough, one never heard about Polish, Ukrainian, German, Scandinavian, Dutch, or Belgian mafias.

Not to stereotype here, but until the 'Sopranos' is through syndication (which won't be for some time), Sicilian-Americans should 'quiet down' about their contribution to the United States. Maybe it was that sense of family loyalty that formed mafias in the first place, Buddy, and perhaps that sense of cultural identity made them feel comfortable enough to carry these into the New World.

At least Italian-Americans on the whole are generally removed, but Sicilian-Americans? Quit tooting your own horn. Probably not true Sicilians in any event...

[shango]

America is God's special country. I love America.

[SensoUnico]

Good, I will sue him for doing such a lousy job. I do not see anything wrong with the children or grandchildren speaking the mother tongue of their parents. Most families have three generations and the first immigrant generation usually does not speak the new language well. I doubt that people born in the USA of immigrant parents speak their parents' mother tongue better. Usually the children of immigrants have to be forced to just speak a few words of the old language. Even when schooled in the language their proficiency is poor.

[santana]

I also think its important to be able to speak ur mother tongue.. because no matter how American or Canadian you become..even if you totally try to erase every thread of evidence of ur ethnic background, it will still follow you everywhere you go. Its a part of who you are but i disagree with that fact that you should say, I am FIRST American and second egyptian.. its my personal opinion because almost anyone can be an American but not anyone can be Egyptian, Italian etc. Besides your roots are more important. Also my ethnicity goes hand in hand with my religion and my religion comes first. I cannot put Canadian above Egyptian.

[Phrederick]

If you immigrate to America but dont consider yourself American, you know what I say? Get the hell out.

[santana]

i frankly dont care what you say first of all and second of all if you understood english you would know that i didnt say that.... i said i would consider myself FIRST EGYPTIAN and then american.... so dont waste my time..!!!