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Post by trustme on Jun 9, 2005 17:19:37 GMT -5
Why is America so ignorant about race? Do you guys think it is because of the mass media, MTV??? Or the racial classification system in the US?
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Post by alexandrian on Jun 9, 2005 17:22:50 GMT -5
It's everything. It's the fact that since it's such a melting pot race doesn't matter that much. It's the political-correctness that makes whites feel guilty. Its the rift between "white" rock culture and "black" hip hop culture. It's the fact that since Americans have no "American" background to cling to, heritage/race either means a lot or nothing at all. I can't explain. America is so unique.
The best answer though, is that Americans just consider themselves "American" They're notoriously ignorant about the rest of the world. Race in the rest of the world is no exception.
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Post by eufrenio on Jun 9, 2005 17:33:41 GMT -5
You´d think that in the most cosmopolitan cities, they´d be more aware and knowledgeable about race. I´m thinking of places like New York , where you can see almost any living human type... Am I wrong?
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Post by Wadaad on Jun 9, 2005 18:00:00 GMT -5
America is part of the New World...your concept of race is the European old world one...both concepts have their biases, their ignorant assumptions and so on, its just that the old world (by this I mean Europe Africa and Asia) had time to habituate themselves with a more diverse group of people, while the New World sees things more Black and White.
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Post by buddyrydell on Jun 9, 2005 18:22:33 GMT -5
I think it's largely based upon the insanely messed up racial classification system that we have here in the U.S. As an example, Hispanic is seen as a race by many people even though Hispanic is only a linguistic designation that transcends race, ethnicity, and nationality. Also, there was the "one drop rule," which stated that if a person had a drop of black African ancestry (say 1/16), he/she was to be regarded as black, no matter how white-looking the person in question was. Also take into account that this was also extended to people who in actuality had no black African ancestry, but because they didn't look northern European, they just had to be part-black LOL. Add to these notions the reality of ethnic mixing here in the New World, and that's also contributed to people having a hard time distinguishing people and neatly fitting them into racial categories. So really, when it comes down to it, we Americans have the slaveholders, ethnic mixing, and the government census to thank for our racial confusion.
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Post by alexandrian on Jun 9, 2005 18:23:24 GMT -5
America is part of the New World...your concept of race is the European old world one...both concepts have their biases, their ignorant assumptions and so on, its just that the old world (by this I mean Europe Africa and Asia) had time to habituate themselves with a more diverse group of people, while the New World sees things more Black and White. On the contrary, the New world sees a much wider variety of people and mixes where things are not even nearly as clear-cut. In the Old World, people usually remain in their countries of origin giving them a direct connection to heritage and thus race.
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Post by buddyrydell on Jun 9, 2005 18:26:40 GMT -5
^Exactly. More mixing = more ambiguity and therefore more confusion. Old World dwellers are notably "purer," so to speak, in racial/ethnic type.
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Post by Trog on Jun 9, 2005 18:27:43 GMT -5
America is part of the New World...your concept of race is the European old world one...both concepts have their biases, their ignorant assumptions and so on, its just that the old world (by this I mean Europe Africa and Asia) had time to habituate themselves with a more diverse group of people, while the New World sees things more Black and White. On the contrary, the New world sees a much wider variety of people and mixes where things are not even nearly as clear-cut. In the Old World, people usually remain in their countries of origin giving them a direct connection to heritage and thus race. I would agree very much with Alex here. Europe may be part of the old world, but there are still clear cut divides when it comes to race, much more so than it appears in the new world where there are all kinds of variations being produced.
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Post by Wadaad on Jun 9, 2005 18:36:09 GMT -5
well im speaking of America in particular, where everythings seen in either black or white as seen by the way alot of the Americans here debate on such issues as Ancient Egypt "If they werent white, they must be black" and vice versa. The Old world is not only Europe but also Asia and Africa which will be forever more diverse than America, where miscegenation is quite rare, and diversity is seen only by way of immigrants from the old world
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Post by alexandrian on Jun 9, 2005 18:41:56 GMT -5
well im speaking of America in particular, where everythings seen in either black or white as seen by the way alot of the Americans here debate on such issues as Ancient Egypt "If they werent white, they must be black" and vice versa. The Old world is not only Europe but also Asia and Africa which will be forever more diverse than America, where miscegenation is quite rare, and diversity is seen only by way of immigrants from the old world But you have to acknowledge that America is home to much more racial diversity than either Europe, Africa, or Asia in terms of the amount of mixing that occurs and the proximity to which different races live by each other. I'm not saying that race doesn't play a factor, because it does, and I could get into a very very long essay on race-view differences between America, Europe and other parts of the world (the Middle East let's say). In America, it's not easy to guess someone's heritage. You have people from all over Europe, Asians from all over East Asia, you have black Africans and ARab-Americans. You have people who mixed with native Americans you have white Americans who have black blood you have intra-racial mixes (let's say between a Chinese and a Japanese or a WASP and a Middle Eastern). I just think in America race may be more important but the reason for ignorance is that there are so many exceptions to every racial "rule" in America that it's not worth going in depth. I think in a few generations we will have to confront the rising of an "American" race.
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Post by Trog on Jun 9, 2005 18:46:12 GMT -5
well im speaking of America in particular, where everythings seen in either black or white as seen by the way alot of the Americans here debate on such issues as Ancient Egypt "If they werent white, they must be black" and vice versa. The Old world is not only Europe but also Asia and Africa which will be forever more diverse than America, where miscegenation is quite rare, and diversity is seen only by way of immigrants from the old world "miscegenation" appears more frequent in America (taking the continent as a whole) more than it does in the old world. So much so, it is due to the various colourful line up of Americans that racial profiles have had to be redrawn countless times. Apart from immigrants in Europe,which are fairly recent, Europe is predominantly European by race with very little evidence of any mixing, even though people have been free to roam about for thousands of years.
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Post by Wadaad on Jun 9, 2005 19:00:18 GMT -5
Just because theres more miscegenation in the US it doesnt make them more or less ignorant of race, matter fact most offsprings of black/white mixes are labelled as black like with Halle Berry's case or many others. Ignorance is not erased by race-mixing, inversely purer people arent more ignorant because they dont get to mix with others. I know mixing doesnt occur as much in Europe, but at least Europeans have been in contact with different races for millenia whether Africans, Middle easterners, Central Asians, Chinese, Indians, and so on. The USA's founding fathers were white protestants, I believe, and due to the ONE drop rule alot of people who look physically white are labeled as African american.
If you look at the Latino issue in the USA it even gets more ridicilous, since both Ricky Martin and Sammy Sosa are labelled Hispanic.
Anyways my initial post never stated that the old world is not as ignorant as the US...its just that they are ignorant over different things
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Post by mike2 on Jun 9, 2005 19:44:08 GMT -5
Americans don't understand racial differences and I'm sure many among me view ethnicity and race as the same thing. For instance, there's a white WASP race (which is of course ridiculous), a Hispanic race, a Greek race, an Italian race, a Jewish race, an Arab race, a black race, an East Indian race, an American Indian race, an Oriental race, and so on. They don't recognize the Big Five phenotypes (Capoid, Australoid, Negroid, Mongoloid, Caucasoid) nor do they understand the relationships between the various branches of the major races.
They think Arabs are a mighty race of their own, they indoctrinate the Hispanic race myth, they think Australian aborigines and Melanesians are closely related if not identical to black Africans, many think Africa is it's own COUNTRY and I'm sure most believe that African = black, they think Berbers are Arabs, ad nauseum.
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Post by trustme on Jun 10, 2005 0:24:54 GMT -5
Americans don't understand racial differences and I'm sure many among me view ethnicity and race as the same thing. For instance, there's a white WASP race (which is of course ridiculous), a Hispanic race, a Greek race, an Italian race, a Jewish race, an Arab race, a black race, an East Indian race, an American Indian race, an Oriental race, and so on. They don't recognize the Big Five phenotypes (Capoid, Australoid, Negroid, Mongoloid, Caucasoid) nor do they understand the relationships between the various branches of the major races. They think Arabs are a mighty race of their own, they indoctrinate the Hispanic race myth, they think Australian aborigines and Melanesians are closely related if not identical to black Africans, many think Africa is it's own COUNTRY and I'm sure most believe that African = black, they think Berbers are Arabs, ad nauseum. Mike the Briton does the Ameircan public consider you white I understand that you are part Greek?
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Post by mike2 on Jun 10, 2005 0:27:28 GMT -5
Mike the Briton does the Ameircan public consider you white I understand that you are part Greek? They do indeed. I have always identified and been identified as a white man. But I've always felt like a pale, black-haired Gondorian in the midst of ruddy, straw-headed Rohirrim, if you get the LOTR reference.
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