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Post by Springa on Mar 28, 2005 7:45:05 GMT -5
He's talking about Northern Euros, and more precisely, the ones who consider themselves the pinnacles of human civilization, not "whites" om general. Maybe it's not even conscious, but you seem to associate "white" with "northern european". Remember, it's a sin to do that at Dodona. I've read several of your posts, and you sound like you have some kind of anti-White agenda. I don't know if you do or don't. It just seems like you take every opportunity to slam White people in some way. I apologize if this isn't the case.
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Samhain
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Post by Samhain on Mar 28, 2005 8:02:27 GMT -5
Right now they are. Northern Europeans have a lifestyle far superior than most, if not all, south of the Equator.
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Samhain
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Post by Samhain on Mar 28, 2005 8:06:07 GMT -5
it is not about claiming some are better than others (please read it again). as i said, i think were all humans and are fundamentally fairly similar... this is about PLACING THINGS INTO REALISTIC PERSPECTIVE. so much bulshit written and said and so many bad things have happened around this northern european supremacist delusion. WHO ARE THE ONES WHO CLAIM TO BE BRAINIER, TO BE THE 'BUILDERS OF CIVILIZATIONS', etc ?? as far as i know, this is unheard of amongst Hindu and East Asians. maybe some do it, after all it happens everywhere. but in the delusional and mass scale northern europeans sense of superiority claims they dont, SURELY NOT. here is another interesting link on their mathematical contributions: www.geocities.com/dipalsarvesh/mathematics.html inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blnapier.htmJohn Napier was the Scottish mathematician and inventor who invented logarithms, the decimal point, and Napier's Bones - a calculating instrument. Napier invented or proposed several military inventions: burning mirrors to set enemy ships on fire, special artillery that destroyed everything within a radius of four miles, bulletproof clothing, an early version of the tank, and a submarine-like device. John Napier also invented a hydraulic screw with a revolving axle for use in coal pits to lower water levels and Napier also worked on agricultural innovations to improve crops with manures and salt. John Napier John Napier is best known for his invention of logarithms. His other mathematical contributions include: a mnemonic for formulas used in solving spherical triangles, two formulas known as Napier's analogies used in solving spherical triangles, an invention called Napier's bones used for mechanically multiplying dividing and taking square roots and cube roots, exponential expressions for trigonometric functions, and the decimal notation for fractions.
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Post by Human on Mar 28, 2005 8:52:22 GMT -5
He's talking about Northern Euros, and more precisely, the ones who consider themselves the pinnacles of human civilization, not "whites" om general. Maybe it's not even conscious, but you seem to associate "white" with "northern european". Remember, it's a sin to do that at Dodona. thats exactly what i tried to do, talking about the self centered Northern Euros who consider themselves the pinnacles of human civilization. there is no anti white agenda whatsoever.
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Post by Human on Mar 28, 2005 8:56:39 GMT -5
inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blnapier.htmJohn Napier was the Scottish mathematician and inventor who invented logarithms, the decimal point, and Napier's Bones - a calculating instrument. Napier invented or proposed several military inventions: burning mirrors to set enemy ships on fire, special artillery that destroyed everything within a radius of four miles, bulletproof clothing, an early version of the tank, and a submarine-like device. John Napier also invented a hydraulic screw with a revolving axle for use in coal pits to lower water levels and Napier also worked on agricultural innovations to improve crops with manures and salt. John Napier John Napier is best known for his invention of logarithms. His other mathematical contributions include: a mnemonic for formulas used in solving spherical triangles, two formulas known as Napier's analogies used in solving spherical triangles, an invention called Napier's bones used for mechanically multiplying dividing and taking square roots and cube roots, exponential expressions for trigonometric functions, and the decimal notation for fractions. sure, he was great, as was Maxwell too, and many other Scottish people as well. however, you wont get back any further than 1400/1500, when it comes to British intellectual contribution to mankind (especially so Scottish). the Hindu, however, are part of the intellectual circuit, so to say, for a much longer time, actually, thousands of years before you Northern Euros came in contact (take notice, came in contact, not invented by themselves) with basic civilization things, like writing etc.
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Post by Human on Mar 28, 2005 9:11:16 GMT -5
Actually, one may commend your ability to glorify other civilisations, especially those you have obviously no connection to (black altruism), but if what you say is true, then is suggests that those same populations have either regressed, or have become stuck for the last several thousand years whilst Europeans have gone on in strides. No civilisation can complete with that of the Greco-Roman foundations, purely because western society emulates it even now. Our civilisation, which began with Greco-Romans is still on-going. Other civilisations have since died out, we're still living it today and that's what so amazing about it. All European groups have had something to contribute because they accept the teachings of Greco-Romans. Also, all this amazing technology that western society has benefitted from in the past 700 years or so didn't just spotaneously spring up, it's creation goes back every generations and links to some European figurehead behind it. Somewhere in the Highlands of Scotland: hm now here i find it really interesting! you go at great lengths to deny any racial relationship between you, Scottish, Northern Euros, and Southern Euros. you deny any physical link between you and Italians, Greeks, etc. but when it comes to the civilization thing then all of a sudden you are part of the Greek Roman legacy, you are just expanding their foundations. this sounds like appropriation. take notice: the Greeks and Romans taught you writing, counting, higher morality, in brief, they civilized you Northern Euros. you came up with nothing by yourselves, ok? if you were as much superior as you like to claim so often you should have been leading the civilizing process for a much longer time, with stuff made up by yourselves. however this did not happen!
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Post by Human on Mar 28, 2005 9:14:00 GMT -5
In addressing the theme of northern Europeans versus Hindu, which northern European groups are you referring to? Scandinavians? Britain, Holland, Germany and France? Which? If you include Great Britain, I can take you on with that one! We can compare British contributions to Hindu quite easily. And no, you cannot go applying timescales, for somewhere like Britain wasn't even populated until as late as 7000BC, and even then it was a handful of people. There's no reason why an area that's been populated for several thousand years and with hundreds of thousands, sorry millions of people should take so long to come up with anything worthwhile, whilst a small group of a few hundred build atronomical wonders, yes, the Megaliths, almost as they inhabit the place. how could it be an astronomical wonder if only by the time of the Romans you came in touch with writing? how could you have a proper calendar if you could not have any sort of written records? if you could not make any calculations? to me it looks like piling up big blocks of stones, and that IS it.
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Samhain
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Post by Samhain on Mar 28, 2005 12:48:49 GMT -5
sure, he was great, as was Maxwell too, and many other Scottish people as well. however, you wont get back any further than 1400/1500, when it comes to British intellectual contribution to mankind (especially so Scottish). the Hindu, however, are part of the intellectual circuit, so to say, for a much longer time, actually, thousands of years before you Northern Euros came in contact (take notice, came in contact, not invented by themselves) with basic civilization things, like writing etc. Well you're very wrong. You see, it is a well known fact that Irish, Scottish and Anglo-Saxon monks settled all over Europe, including France, Germany, Switzerland, Austria and Italy, and transported Greco-Roman teaching from as early as 5th century. This age is known as The Golden Age of Irish Monasticism, the Gallic School of c.600 A.D founded the monasteries of St Gaul in Switzerland and Bobbio in Italy Indeed, the flim, "Name of the Rose" features the same Church, Bobbio in Italy and was settled by St Columbus, an Irish monk and held one of the largest libraries in Europe. Much has been written in recent times about Ogham script, Celts did not write because they were forbidden too by the Druids, but Old English was already being written and distributed from northern England by 6th century (see writing of Bede etc). It is a tribute to the English language that today it is the language most used by people all over the world to communicate. As for you comment "thousands of years", well yes, considering there were already millions of people in Indian anyway, compared with a small cluster of people in Britain which was an empty land up until 7000bc. To build megaliths in accordance with archaeoastronomy, people would have had to develop a more than basic understanding of maths. I'm no fan of Vikings or Scandinavians in general, but the Vikings were great sailors and navigators and they cared little for where they settled as their time was spent most on the sea. Their ships were amazing engineering. Northern European did all this with only a small number of people, and even today we are small numbers but have still contributed so much to society. No civilisation can compare to what we have today (in the west, that is)and the British have had an enormous dealing on this.
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Samhain
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Post by Samhain on Mar 28, 2005 13:07:33 GMT -5
hm now here i find it really interesting! you go at great lengths to deny any racial relationship between you, Scottish, Northern Euros, and Southern Euros. you deny any physical link between you and Italians, Greeks, etc. but when it comes to the civilization thing then all of a sudden you are part of the Greek Roman legacy, you are just expanding their foundations. this sounds like appropriation. take notice: the Greeks and Romans taught you writing, counting, higher morality, in brief, they civilized you Northern Euros. you came up with nothing by yourselves, ok? if you were as much superior as you like to claim so often you should have been leading the civilizing process for a much longer time, with stuff made up by yourselves. however this did not happen! I'm not a spokes person for northern Europeans, but I am for British/Irish etc. When I speak of European affairs, it is as a whole, Britain/Ireland is what concerns me as it encompasses all of my heritage. There is no special physical link between Britons (I include Irish in this) and southern Europeans, other than that of a gene 40,000 or so years old. Input from northern Europe is not that great either (indeed, southern Europeans and Britons share a larger HG1 component), the English greatest genetic neighbour is not Scotland, it's Germany, this illustrates how close Germanic groups are. Not one person can under estimate the contributions of the Greco-Romans, however, individuals like you, whose learning is limited to internet forums and not actual academia will often resort to the same old, same old. I will try and summarise this. When the Romans left Britain, she was in chaos. Anglo-Saxons had invaded lower Britain (which is central/southern England) and this area descended into savagery. Northern England, Scotland and Ireland had been largely unaffected, and there existed monks and monasteries (these were where people were educated before universities etc). So whilst lower England decayed, all Roman legacy gone (note Romans never invaded Ireland or Scotland, so much for your uneducated theories), Scotland, ireland and Northern England became a place of learning and missionaries who then transported learning and religion all over Europe. Monks spent hours upon hours writing and copying manuscripts and when Italy and everywhere else were invaded by Goths and everyone else, the monks carried on with their missions, eventually converting even the Goths and restoring that morality (which comes from Christianity). Romans and Greeks were not moral, that came from Christianity. Britain has been leading the civilised world and beyond for a much longer time than you realise. Everywhere else got a head start. Yet still there are remote tribes in Africa, Australia, South Africa, Indonesia and south America living exactly the same way as they have been for thousands of years. Now when you see them, you can see the result of not being introduced to civilisation as engineered by Europeans (no European deserves sole credit for ingenuity, but some do more than others).
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Samhain
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Post by Samhain on Mar 28, 2005 13:16:37 GMT -5
Writing is the concept of thoughts and understanding, as are megaliths, they're just projected in different ways and are both a form of communication. They didn't need to write when they could think, which makes their planning even more ingenious when you think about it. Aztecs built civilisations without the ability to write, it does not mean they could not communicate either.
Perhap they were so advanced that they didn't have to write things down in order to remember and plan? The most genius of people do not need to write things down to understand, only the most simplest of people rely on this.
yet all these archaeologists, scientists, astronomers see something much more than you. Perhaps this says more about you than it does about the megaliths? There's engineering, mathematics etc involved in their creation which has only been discovered by people who are educated. There's people here in Scotland who think nothing of them either, but those same people are drug abusers and are uneducated.
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Post by Human on Mar 28, 2005 13:41:37 GMT -5
Writing is the concept of thoughts and understanding, as are megaliths, they're just projected in different ways and are both a form of communication. They didn't need to write when they could think, which makes their planning even more ingenious when you think about it. Aztecs built civilisations without the ability to write, it does not mean they could not communicate either. Perhap they were so advanced that they didn't have to write things down in order to remember and plan? The most genius of people do not need to write things down to understand, only the most simplest of people rely on this. yet all these archaeologists, scientists, astronomers see something much more than you. Perhaps this says more about you than it does about the megaliths? There's engineering, mathematics etc involved in their creation which has only been discovered by people who are educated. There's people here in Scotland who think nothing of them either, but those same people are drug abusers and are uneducated. the Aztecs did have writing, as the Mayas also had. they made it up by themselves. Romans did not teach them writing. the Incas did not have any (they had a primitive knot system, which bordered writing), as nearly all other native american tribes. the Celts did not have writing. you cant compare big blocks of stones with what was being built at other places at that time (have a look at Babylonians buildings, at Mohenjo Daros temples, etc etc). the whole point is, no matter how much Northern Europeans folks are advanced today, they can NOT (as they want to, and in fact do) say it is so because of (or mainly) their intrinsic biological capabilities . if such was the case, such a too late start should not have happened. as early as i could read, as early as i got interested about the early inhabitants of the areas where my ancestors came from (celts, western germany), i realized there was no much big thing to be proud of. stone monuments, lack of writing, human sacrifices, lower morality, imported intellectual stuff (Roman/Greek), imported religion, etc, etc. this whole bulshit story of innate Northern European superiority sounds like an odd and bizarre fairy tale. take note: the most 2 basic tools of civilization, and yet the most ingenious of them all, which catapulted our developments (among many other things), our nummeral system (decimal & clever notation, which allowed simplicity and deeper calculations) and the phonetic way of writing (alphabet, a much simpler and advanced one than any other way of writing), were invented by NON european folks (the Hindu are credited with our current nummeral system, though as far as ive read the Chinese gave their contribution too; and the Phoenicians with the alphabet). your highly praised people were playing with stones at that time!
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Post by topdog on Mar 28, 2005 13:50:21 GMT -5
this whole bulshit story of innate Northern European superiority sounds like an odd and bizarre fairy tale. I agree with that statement, but the same thing in regards to southern Europeans[and so-called Mediterraneans] can be applied. Northern Europeans and Afrocentrists get demonised as some kind of culture vultures but chest pounding about a 'superior race' of Mediterraneans certainly does nothing to help the case of the majority of people here on dodona. I frankly find all of the regional and racial 'cultural relativism' or who's better than who to be quite childish and tiring.
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Post by Human on Mar 28, 2005 13:56:04 GMT -5
I agree with that statement, but the same thing in regards to southern Europeans[and so-called Mediterraneans] can be applied. Northern Europeans and Afrocentrists get demonised as some kind of culture vultures but chest pounding about a 'superior race' of Mediterraneans certainly does nothing to help the case of the majority of people here on dodona. I frankly find all of the regional and racial 'cultural relativism' or who's better than who to be quite childish and tiring. i agree with you. but northern european supremacism has been around for a longer time than those you mentioned. and afrocentrism and mediterranean centrism represent, in a way, reactions to northern european supremacism. exposing northern european supremacism, it follows, is also denouncing all sorts of supremacism.
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Post by topdog on Mar 28, 2005 14:05:02 GMT -5
i agree with you. but northern european supremacism has been around for a longer time than those you mentioned. and afrocentrism and mediterranean centrism represent, in a way, reactions to northern european supremacism. I agree that maybe Nordicism did perpetuate some reaction from African-centred and southern European trains of thought, but reacting with a battle of cultural relativism does nothing to refute the 'Nordicist boogieman'. There are no Nordicists and Afrocentrists claiming anything in this forum, but there are people in here lumping together civilisations from Africa, Europe and the Near East under one 'superior Mediterranean civilisation'. The ancients never thought of such of thing[one big 'Med' race] so why are people today chest pounding about something the ancients never cared about?
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Samhain
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Post by Samhain on Mar 28, 2005 14:11:30 GMT -5
the Aztecs did have writing, as the Mayas also had. they made it up by themselves. Romans did not teach them writing. the Incas did not have any (they had a primitive knot system, which bordered writing), as nearly all other native american tribes. the Celts did not have writing. you cant compare big blocks of stones with what was being built at other places at that time (have a look at Babylonians buildings, at Mohenjo Daros temples, etc etc). the whole point is, no matter how much Northern Europeans folks are advanced today, they can NOT (as they want to, and in fact do) say it is so because of (or mainly) their intrinsic biological capabilities . if such was the case, such a too late start should not have happened. as early as i could read, as early as i got interested about the early inhabitants of the areas where my ancestors came from (celts, western germany), i realized there was no much big thing to be proud of. stone monuments, lack of writing, human sacrifices, lower morality, imported intellectual stuff (Roman/Greek), imported religion, etc, etc. this whole bulshit story of innate Northern European superiority sounds like an odd and bizarre fairy tale. take note: the most 2 basic tools of civilization, and yet the most ingenious of them all, which catapulted our developments (among many other things), our nummeral system (decimal & clever notation, which allowed simplicity and deeper calculations) and the phonetic way of writing (alphabet, a much simpler and advanced one than any other way of writing), were invented by NON european folks (the Hindu are credited with our current nummeral system, though as far as ive read the Chinese gave their contribution too; and the Phoenicians with the alphabet). your highly praised people were playing with stones at that time! This ole facade of people pretending they're whites ashamed of their heritage and history is often used on internet forums, you're not very original and certainly have zero European heritage. Now perhaps some brain fodder for you: Greco-Roman foundations were lost all over Europe during the dark ages. The Moors (Turks, Syrians that is) are credited with maintaining some form of education in Iberia, the Irish Scholastic monks are credited with northern Europe, central Europe and northern Italy, the area where the later Renaissance would emerge from. The Irish monks were already setting up centres of learning even before the first Moor crossed over to Iberia. As in most areas of life, most people have a good opportunity to be exposed to some form of knowledge and learning, but it's what you do with it that counts. Greek (mental concept) and Roman (physical concept)contributions lay the foundations, everywhere else in Europe built them up to create the modern society we have today. The greatest mathematicians, Scientists of the last 1000 years have came from Europe, the latin script forms the basis of most alphabets, Greeks are credited with Maths more than anyone else and John Napier is credited with the decimal point. Every single worthwhile contribution in life can be linked to a European. India is a cesspool, Chinese people eat domesticated pets and aborted babies, as well as kill their offspring, most Indonesians live simple, humble lives and none have the civilisation that exists in western, capitalist society (which explains why they risk their lives to enter W Europe). Why have these people not advanced? They live in small communities, they fish, they raise children, they build their own homes - this you consider civilisation? Any country that adopts a capitalist society is adopting Greco-Roman-European legacy. When the Tsunami hit Asia what was the European response? When famine and hits strike Africa, who do they turn to? You're an ungrateful little parasite living off the legacy of European ancestors right now!
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