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Post by Faelcind on Mar 19, 2005 0:45:59 GMT -5
This allways baffles me people trumpeting they accomplishments of their race or nationality as if the average IQ score of whatever group the affiliate with or the pyramids that group built or the civilization of that group, was some personal accomplishment of their own. Does it matter if Asian have higher IQ's if your asian and your an idiot? Has anyone here helped construct or design any famous monumental architecture, or been instrumental in the rise of a civilization? To me it allways comes of as rooted in a personal inferiority complex, they aren't sastified with themselves so they have to connect themselves to some greater entity to prop up their ego. Its pathetic.
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Post by alexandrian on Mar 19, 2005 2:02:38 GMT -5
I couldn't disagree more. I don't see how being proud in the accomplishments of your ancestors or your fellows is a bad thing. Asians taking pride in having higher IQ is healthy. Arab-Americans and Indian-Americans taking pride in having influential and successful American communities is healthy. Egyptians,Lebanese, Greeks, Syrians, Iraqis, Italians, etc. being proud of their rich heritage and wanted to preserve/protect it is also healthy. Obviously this can add self-confidence to someone, however I don't think only people with terribly low self esteem or an inferiority complex look to their ancestors for inspiration or their fellows for confidence and pride. Self-pride however is obviously most important.
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Post by Faelcind on Mar 19, 2005 2:05:46 GMT -5
Taking pride in it is one thing constantly trumpeting your pride to ever one else and claiming your better because of it is a whole nother. I am very proud of my irish ancestry I don't think it makes me better then anyone else.
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Post by alexandrian on Mar 19, 2005 2:11:05 GMT -5
Taking pride in it is one thing constantly trumpeting your pride to ever one else and claiming your better because of it is a whole nother. I am very proud of my irish ancestry I don't think it makes me better then anyone else. I think you can trumpet your pride when there is reason too. Mostly to prove a point. I don't think its much of a problem. I'd say being overtly-proud of your modern country (blind patriotism) is infinitely more dangerous than being proud of something long gone.
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Post by Faelcind on Mar 19, 2005 2:14:26 GMT -5
What point would ever require your pride of heritage as proof?
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Post by alexandrian on Mar 19, 2005 2:17:06 GMT -5
What point would ever require your pride of heritage as proof? When you're arguing with racists. Lets say people tell you Arabs are filthy, backwards people. You can say that the ancestors of today's "ARabs" spawned Egypt, Sumer, Phoenicia, Carthage, Assyria, and Israel. It combats racism and stereotyping. Furthermore, its natural to try and prove that ur people are better than someone else's people, even if its all in good fun.
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Post by Faelcind on Mar 19, 2005 2:22:30 GMT -5
That argument doesn't have to have anything to do with personal pride. I can and have made that point but whats more important is that civilizations themselves have nothing to do with race.
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Post by buddyrydell on Mar 19, 2005 2:31:37 GMT -5
I understand both viewpoints and I say that a happy medium is most important. I definitely think that taking a certain degree (though not excessive) of pride in one's ethnic group and its respective accomplishments can be a healthy thing, but I also think that if taken too far, it can lead to bigotry and snobbery. Still, everyone has the right to be proud of their heritage and I agree that it can be a source for inspiration. Alexandrian's proud to be Egyptian, Fael's proud to be Irish, I'm proud to be Italian, etc. That's perfectly fine and only normal I think.
However, also agree with Fael that if the person as an individual isn't that intelligent and is busy trumpeting pride in his ethnicity, that's also rather pointless. Not that intelligence can always be helped since some people are just more gifted due to genetics, but when that lack of intelligence is combined with disrespect and contempt towards other groups, a line has been crossed.
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Post by joton on Mar 19, 2005 3:01:33 GMT -5
theres nothing wrong with pride; as long as it is used in a positive way. ;D
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Post by whoseyourdaddy on Mar 19, 2005 4:02:55 GMT -5
Theres nothing wrong with pride. If someone takes pride in having a higher IQ, who cares?
Personally, in regards to higher IQs;
I think asians are smarter, but caucasoids are more creative, if that make sense. Studies show that IQ does not measure creativity.
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Post by topdog on Mar 19, 2005 4:03:18 GMT -5
I couldn't disagree more. I don't see how being proud in the accomplishments of your ancestors or your fellows is a bad thing. Asians taking pride in having higher IQ is healthy. Arab-Americans and Indian-Americans taking pride in having influential and successful American communities is healthy. Egyptians,Lebanese, Greeks, Syrians, Iraqis, Italians, etc. being proud of their rich heritage and wanted to preserve/protect it is also healthy. Obviously this can add self-confidence to someone, however I don't think only people with terribly low self esteem or an inferiority complex look to their ancestors for inspiration or their fellows for confidence and pride. Self-pride however is obviously most important. I'm sorry but you are a hypocrite. Grouping Lebanese, Greeks, Italians, Syrians, Iraqis, Egyptians, etc, together and talking about 'Mediterranean superiority' while simultaneously complaining about Afrocentrists and Nordicists attempting to connect themselves with cultures and civilizations that have nothing to do with them is pure hypocrisy. If African-Americans[in your biased opinion] have nothing to do with ancient Egypt, neither Romans, Greeks, Lebanese, Iraqis, Italians, and Syrians. 'Mediterranean pride' is just glorified ethnocentric chest pounding.
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Post by whoseyourdaddy on Mar 19, 2005 4:08:33 GMT -5
I'm sorry but you are a hypocrite. Grouping Lebanese, Greeks, Italians, Syrians, Iraqis, Egyptians, etc, together and talking about 'Mediterranean superiority' while simultaneously complaining about Afrocentrists and Nordicists attempting to connect themselves with cultures and civilizations that have nothing to do with them is pure hypocrisy. If African-Americans[in your biased opinion] have nothing to do with ancient Egypt, neither Romans, Greeks, Lebanese, Iraqis, Italians, and Syrians. 'Mediterranean pride' is just glorified ethnocentric chest pounding. Also to add to that, werent there genetic studies that showed southern europeans are more closely related to northern europeans then middle easterners and north africans? EDIT: its not just the nordics that are trying to relate themselves to southern european culture, its vice versa also, the southern europeans want themselves to be considered european, in europe, they call themselves "white".
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Post by topdog on Mar 19, 2005 4:17:25 GMT -5
Also to add to that, werent there genetic studies that showed southern europeans are more closely related to northern europeans then middle easterners and north africans? Northern and southern Europeans are descended largely from Paleolithic Europeans, genetically speaking. On average, 20% of Europeans have 'Neolithic' ancestry from the Middle East, though it is higher in the south than in the north. So you are correct, Northern and southern Europeans are more related to each other than to North Africans and Middle Easterners.
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Post by whoseyourdaddy on Mar 19, 2005 4:20:13 GMT -5
Northern and southern Europeans are descended largely from Paleolithic Europeans, genetically speaking. On average, 20% of Europeans have 'Neolithic' ancestry from the Middle East, though it is higher in the south than in the north. So you are correct, Northern and southern Europeans are more related to each other than to North Africans and Middle Easterners. I think Hungarians and Finnish have a large amount of Mongoid blood in them....especially the Hungarians, though I dont think its relativily known.
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Post by topdog on Mar 19, 2005 4:30:45 GMT -5
I think Hungarians and Finnish have a large amount of Mongoid blood in them....especially the Hungarians, though I dont think its relativily known. Finns do but Hungarians have far less.
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