English/Second language proficiency in Europe

[jay (mulatto)]

which countries in Europe are the most proficient in English?

what i gather is. (some of these could be pretty wrong, and is more a case of demonstrating what i mean. so i expect some people to correct this list, and add other countries etc.)

English
--------

1st language: United Kingdom, Ireland (although official language is Gaelic).

2nd language (above average standard): Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark.

2nd language (average standard): Germany, Austria, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Belgium, Greece, Spain, Portugal.

2nd language (below average standard): France, Italy.

(i just included mostly Western european/old EU) - "average standard" being the average amongst the european/EU countries in question.

-i'd imagine theres also a degree of proficiency in French, and German. amongst Europeans.

[buddyrydell]

jay said:

which countries in Europe are the most proficient in English?

what i gather is. (some of these could be pretty wrong, and is more a case of demonstrating what i mean. so i expect some people to correct this list, and add other countries etc.)

English
--------

1st language: United Kingdom, Ireland (although official language is Gaelic).

2nd language (above average standard): Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark.

2nd language (average standard): Germany, Austria, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Belgium, Greece, Spain, Portugal.

2nd language (below average standard): France, Italy.

(i just included mostly Western european/old EU) - "average standard" being the average amongst the european/EU countries in question.

-i'd imagine theres also a degree of proficiency in French, and German. amongst Europeans.

That's interesting, I would've thought that Italy and France would be more within the average standard range whereas countries like Greece and Portugal would be more below avg. standard since more of the population is poorer and less educated.

[ginojda]

buddyrydell said:

That's interesting, I would've thought that Italy and France would be more within the average standard range whereas countries like Greece and Portugal would be more below avg. standard since more of the population is poorer and less educated.

I agree with you on Portugal and Greece. Buddy, have you ever heard the French try to speak english? I think most of them refuse to speak it and but understand it, but their accent is not very understandable when they do speak it, probably because of all the bad blood between those two countries histories. ;D According to a friend who's been all over Europe, he says that swedes and scandanavians speak the best english all over Europe and best in Northern Europe. And from Southern Europe, Spaniards speak the best understandable english coming from a Latin country in Europe. I guess cause they have a lot of English immigrants living there and probably the influences too.(ie.Gibaltar)

[buddyrydell]

ginojda said:

I agree with you on Portugal and Greece. Buddy, have you ever heard the French try to speak english? I think most of them refuse to speak it and but understand it, but their accent is not very understandable when they do speak it, probably because of all the bad blood between those two countries histories. ;D According to a friend who's been all over Europe, he says that swedes and scandanavians speak the best english all over Europe and best in Northern Europe. And from Southern Europe, Spaniards speak the best understandable english coming from a Latin country in Europe. I guess cause they have a lot of English immigrants living there and probably the influences too.(ie.Gibaltar)

I've heard similar explanations regarding French attitudes toward speaking English. I think some of it just has to do with the fact that the French are a very proud people, and it strikes some as snobbish, particulary Americans because of such historical events as the American Revolution and WWII in which both countries aided one another, thus one would think that France the U.S. should be well-received in each other's countries. So when Americans go to France and are frowned upon when speaking English, the French dislike it. I think people should at least try to speak a few phrases of the language of the country in which they're staying just out of courtesy, but I guess the French may find it hard to accept that they're not the world power they once were.

Btw Gino, I also think there could be a correlation with the resentment between Britain and France which could explain the fact that the French prefer to speak their own language. It's possible that the French are jealous of our close relationship to Britain, especially since the French helped us in the Revolution against the British, but they have to understand that the U.S. was ultimately founded by Brits, which is why Britain's the country that the U.S. came to feel most akin to.

[ginojda]

buddyrydell said:

I've heard similar explanations regarding French attitudes toward speaking English. I think some of it just has to do with the fact that the French are a very proud people, and it strikes some as snobbish, particulary Americans because of such historical events as the American Revolution and WWII in which both countries aided one another, thus one would think that France the U.S. should be well-received in each other's countries. So when Americans go to France and are frowned upon when speaking English, the French dislike it. I think people should at least try to speak a few phrases of the language of the country in which they're staying just out of courtesy, but I guess the French may find it hard to accept that they're not the world power they once were.

Btw Gino, I also think there could be a correlation with the resentment between Britain and France which could explain the fact that the French prefer to speak their own language. It's possible that the French are jealous of our close relationship to Britain, especially since the French helped us in the Revolution against the British, but they have to understand that the U.S. was ultimately founded by Brits, which is why Britain's the country that the U.S. came to feel most akin to.

Yeah I agree on that. Also, I heard horror tales of how badly some American Tourist and other Tourist(but I heard they mainly hate American and British tourist) have been treated in France. And remember that France is the most visited country in the world with over 75 million plus people going there each year. Maybe the French are tired of people all over the world walking down their streets like they own the place?

[mike2]

As far as I'm concerned, the French can suck the collective wang.

[jay (mulatto)]

buddyrydell said:

That's interesting, I would've thought that Italy and France would be more within the average standard range whereas countries like Greece and Portugal would be more below avg. standard since more of the population is poorer and less educated.

buddy, the list doesn't come from any official site. it was my own crude estimate of how well i think the European countries can speak English. so if anyone has different opinions about those countries listed, then i'd be glad to have their input.

well the reason why i made this topic. was because i'm interested in knowing where the EU is headed. I think that a common understandable language throughout the EU is the key catalyst to a United States Of Europe. I have a feeling that the EU will go this way, and be somewhat of a mirror image of the US. i.e. the US is a group of states populated with a mix of european ancestries, and a non-white minority, and a common language, but with smaller secondary spoken languages. I think this is the direction the EU looks like it's converging towards. as for political orientation of the EU, i don't think that will necessarily be the same as the US. as a British and EU citizen, I support a federal Europe. - I think individual EU nations could be doing their part to adjust for this. such as in the UK we have devolution of regions such as Wales, Scotland, N.Ireland. I suspect that eventually where this will figure in a United States of Europe, is not a UK, France, Germany etc. but a Southern England, Northern England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Southern Ireland, Northern France, Western France, Southern France, Central France etc. - basically a bunch of smaller bite-size states.

so does anyone know if EU states proficiency in English is increasing. are EU governments moving their focus from teaching their citizens traditional foreign languages, and over to English. Since I live in the UK, and English is the mother tongue here, there's less emphasis for a specific foreign language to learn. although French & German are usually the most common. I'd imagine if I were living in Europe, I'd be very excited to learn English, so I guess most EU schoolchildren learn English as a foreign language, and probably spend more than the 2-5 casual years that us Brits spend learning foreign languages in highschool.