"The kidnapped West": if Western Slavs are Slavs

[Mimers]

Wow, I can imagine it now...thanks for the euro perspective It's pretty different here, because there is a LOT of movement here....the country is big, so we can easily move and relocate from province to province for school and work, new people come in everyday, everyone is different and it's very multi-cultural....we mix a lot here (Annunaki should come and visit!!! ) The big trend I see now is white males and E/SE asian females....hehehe It's amazing really...I wonder if the canadian caucasian male lost his taste for the caucasian female...maybe it's post-feminist reaction/trauma? Maybe our roles are more and more confused here in NA? Who knows, but it all seems natural to me, maybe because of the environment that I grew up in...
Lada, I understand now that in Europe, geography plays a big part, I always thought there was much more movement!! Thanks for the perspective, I think I will come to Europe and see for myself!! I really need to travel ....

[Circe]

@ Mimidamoon: Your "thanks for the perspective" comment makes me think of Henry James

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@ Nock:

lada said:

You may feel closer to a Slovak than to a German. But does the Slovak feel closer to a Serbian than to a German? It takes two to tango.

In my opinion, Slovaks feel really close to Czeks and Poles, especially people in abroad. We are not in contact with Serbs because of geography, but when Slovak talk to Serb and to German, he feels closer to Serb- also because of similar language.
Maybe people living in Bratislava can feel close to Germans, but not closer than to another Slavic people...

HA! What did I tell you, you stubborn, non-Slavic Dinaricized Med!
;D

[Mimers]

?This Henry James:

Henry James (1843-1916)

American-born writer, gifted with talents in literature, psychology, and philosophy. James wrote 20 novels, 112 stories, 12 plays and a number of literary criticism. His models were Dickens, Balzac, and Hawthorne. James once said that he learned more of the craft of writing from Balzac "than from anyone else".

"A novel is in its broadest sense a personal, a direct impression of life: that, to begin with, constitutes its value, which is greater or less according to the intensity of the impression." (from The Art of Fiction, 1885)

His main themes were the innocence of the New World in conflict with corruption and wisdom of the Old.

...where did he use "thanks for the perspective"? In one of his novels?

[Circe]

Yes, that Henry James

I don't recall him using the exact phrase (it'd be a miracle if I did), but the explanation of what I wrote can be found in the last paragraph of your encyclopedia quotation

And just to be on the safe side here, I meant no offence or harm - it was just an offhand observation

[Mimers]

Why would I be offended? I marvel at all the wealth of information here, I actually went on google to type henry james....and realized I read one of his books...heheheh

I totally understand though, about misunderstandings when posting. The thing about typing is that the other person doesn't get to see the visual cues, so I guess that is why the smiley faces and stuff are useful.
Also I noticed when there is a heated debate going on, some of the people respond to something that was never posted...it's like they don't read the other person's post properly. How many times have we read people arguing over the same thing or over something that was never said...heheheheh it's funny but inefficient too.

I don't usually get offended...it's rare...but thank you for making sure, that is very diplomatic of you Circe

[Circe]

You know we Serbs are famous for our diplomatic skills! ;D

[nockwasright]

@ Nock:

lada said:

In my opinion, Slovaks feel really close to Czeks and Poles, especially people in abroad. We are not in contact with Serbs because of geography, but when Slovak talk to Serb and to German, he feels closer to Serb- also because of similar language.
Maybe people living in Bratislava can feel close to Germans, but not closer than to another Slavic people...

HA! What did I tell you, you stubborn, non-Slavic Dinaricized Med!
;D

Ah! First having ancestry from Puglia I reserve the right to be as dinaricised as the next fellow . As I stressed out many times Puglia is more eastern than Warsaw.
Then, I must say that Kundera didn't claim that Western Slavs were closer to Germans than to each other.
He instead affirms that Western Slavs are a cultural ethnic group that as a whole is more akin to the Western Europe than to the Eastern (i.e. Russia, Ukraina, Belarus). The position of Serbs is a little akward in this "subdivision" due to their stronger bonds with Russia (if this exists also ou of my imagination).

So, Lada, do you also feel closer to Russians than to Western Europeans? What is taught in Slovak's school in history classes? And literature? I mean is more emphatised the Western Europan culture or the Eastern? Slovak writers, thinkers etc. are more influenced by the West or the Est?

[Circe]

nockwasright said:

Then, I must say that Kundera didn't claim that Western Slavs were closer to Germans than to each other.
He instead affirms that Western Slavs are a cultural ethnic group that as a whole is more akin to the Western Europe than to the Eastern (i.e. Russia, Ukraina, Belarus). The position of Serbs is a little akward in this "subdivision" due to their stronger bonds with Russia (if this exists also ou of my imagination).

C'mon, don't spoil the fun by being too serious
I am perfectly aware of what Kundera claimed and referred to, I think it's obvious from my posts here

The position of Serbs is more than little awkward in many cases ;D

But yes, Serbian-Russian bond does exist. It is based on the shared Orthodox Christian religion and Russian involvment in the Balkans, especially their help in the liberation from Turkish rule in the 19th c., but I must say it is a kind of love-hate relationship...
I don't want to flood this thread with historical data, but I can PM you if you're interested

[Lada]

nockwasright said:

So, Lada, do you also feel closer to Russians than to Western Europeans? What is taught in Slovak's school in history classes? And literature? I mean is more emphatised the Western Europan culture or the Eastern? Slovak writers, thinkers etc. are more influenced by the West or the Est?

I would say, I feel to be central European-at school we were taught that Europe is geographicaly divided to West, Central and East, and Slovakia belongs to central Europe with Czeks, Poles, Hungarians etc. There is also saying up here,that Slovakia is heart of Europe.So I was suprised when I was abroad that people from West consider us to be East Europe. But to be sincere,after 1989 when communisme fall down, it was big-pro Western European and pro-American boom. But its logical after 40-years Russian influence. People stoped to learn Russian language-which was obligatory to learn during commusim-and began study west EU languages. But on the present I ve noticed, that people start to learn russian language again, young people are interested in it. Songs and singers, music bands from Croatia, Ukraina, Czek republic, Bulgaria are really popular right now. But its true,people from Slovakia and another Slavic countries dont like when they are consider to be Russians by people from West.
I do not feel closer to West or to Russians.At first place,there is national culture, everybody here feels at first to be Slovak.
Concerning literature and historic classes, we are learning about history and writers from all of the world and I dont think that somebody is emphatised more than other.

[nockwasright]

lada said:

I would say, I feel to be central European-at school we were taught that Europe is geographicaly divided to West, Central and East, and Slovakia belongs to central Europe with Czeks, Poles, Hungarians etc. There is also saying up here,that Slovakia is heart of Europe.So I was suprised when I was abroad that people from West consider us to be East Europe. But to be sincere,after 1989 when communisme fall down, it was big-pro Western European and pro-American boom. But its logical after 40-years Russian influence. People stoped to learn Russian language-which was obligatory to learn during commusim-and began study west EU languages. But on the present I ve noticed, that people start to learn russian language again, young people are interested in it. Songs and singers, music bands from Croatia, Ukraina, Czek republic, Bulgaria are really popular right now. But its true,people from Slovakia and another Slavic countries dont like when they are consider to be Russians by people from West.

Very interesting. The plot thickens. As I've been accused to be too serious I will just add that to my experience Slovakia arguably has the best beer in the World. This makes them a little bit more German, IMO, but I don't wan't to be an obstacle to the new pan slavism of this forum .

@circe you know I know you know.

[Circe]

nockwasright said:

As I've been accused to be too serious I will just add that to my experience Slovakia arguably has the best beer in the World. This makes them a little bit more German, IMO, but I don't wan't to be an obstacle to the new pan slavism of this forum

That's the spirit! ;D

@circe you know I know you know.

[Lada]

As I've been accused to be too serious I will just add that to my experience Slovakia arguably has the best beer in the World.

Oh yes, Slovaks drink beer instead water :

[murphee]

My first-hand experience with a Slavic nation--my visit in 1995 to the Czech Republic. I rode trains in Austria, Germany, then on to Prague.
Several things stand out in my mind--I rode trams throughout Prague and walked the streets--and I noticed that the older folks, the ones who lived through World War 2, had an unmistakeable look to their faces, one I have never seen on Americans. There was a tired, down-beaten look to their faces--showing they had lived through a lifetime of troubles. War, Communism, economic troubles--I could see it written on their faces.
No easy smiles...
The youth were the opposite--full of optimism and spark.
Leaving Germany, going to the Czech Republic--the physical change right at the border was dramatic. Germany--a manicured, rural landcape with pristine chalets--then as soon as the train hit the border--countryside with old crumbling brick buildings, weeds, debris.

[Lada]

murphee said:

.
Leaving Germany, going to the Czech Republic--the physical change right at the border was dramatic. Germany--a manicured, rural landcape with pristine chalets--then as soon as the train hit the border--countryside with old crumbling brick buildings, weeds, debris.

Yes, communists didnt appreciate historical old building and they derstoyed many of them, to build on their places "modern" box looking, grey sheds. Good exemple is Slovak capital city-Bratislava,where many historical monumemnts was downfallen.
But nowadays, all cities were reconstructed, looking really sweet, full of colors

I ve been in USA last summer, and first think I noticed was, that people looked so freed, content, always kept smiling, greeting each other. It s not so usual among older generation, up here, in Slovakia.

[Ilmatar]

My personal experience on "Western Slavs" is mainly based on talking to a former colleague, who is a Czeck from the North Western part of the country. Basicly what I perceived was that we largely shared the same menthality, and strangely enaugh even same traditions -even if she came from the catholic part of the country - , that were very different from those of the Central or even Northern Italy. We were actually talking about it a lot. I came to the conclusion that most of the traditions -such as having a Christmas calender or baking different kinds of short breads for the holidays - must have reached Finland from Central Europe via Germany.