Race and Beauty

[Faelcind]

Just remember wolves rarely bark, and when they do its shortly followed by biting

[Faelcind]

BTW ulvesang what does your name mean. I am guessing Ulve is derived from ulf same as the english wolf. Whats the sang part mean is wolf song?

[ulvesang]

I am German. I avoided saying so because a) you never openly said if you were American or not, and b) it would only serve to open yet more insults and flaming.

I also feel that these days labels and identity is difficult to sort out, because I feel greater allegiance to all the progressive, open-minded, peace and freedom-loving people who are mature enough to unite for the benefit of all.

Ulvesang is Norwegian bokmaal for "wolf-song"

[ulvesang]

I'm sorry LibLabDog if my recognition of the normal Americans has offened you even more. Because you can't even notice the credit I give to your country, I place you as a "Damn American" and faelcind as a true "American."

[LibLabDog]

Aha! ...Someone else who get's to hear all kinds of ridiculous crap about their country. Don't worry, none from me today.

Any time you guys want to take a turn baby-sitting those "Germans" causing 50 years of trouble in Palestine, just let us know.

...Sorry, bad joke.

Oh well, keep your penis out of trouble. It's for making babies. Not getting high. ...Use drugs instead or something.

Cheers

[ulvesang]

Joke excused. That could start another flame war... we'll leave it at two letters: UN.

Penises and vaginas are made both for making babies AND getting high. Enjoy your marriage more than just as an infant factory. Hell, if she's going to go through all that trouble, at least let her enjoy the impregnating act...

But once again, the thread wasn't about sex.

Tschüß!

[LibLabDog]

Still waiting for the U.N. to help out in Darfur.

I guess maybe the "Genetic Beauty" of the Darfur people doesn't warrant the U.N.'s attention.

...The U.N. is nothing but an excuse for Europe's inactivity. ...And y'all know it.

[ulvesang]

exactly: for its "world democracy," the UN messes up a lot. Israel, anyone? The UN must be to STOP hate and oppression, not oppress people to give more freedom to others. If someone votes no on some.thing and you force him to do it anyway, there'll be VERY bad news.

And for all of the US's hatred of the UN, it was the starter of the whole idea, and fiercely advocated the UN until it stopped being a "yes-man" to US agenda.

BTW, Europe (and the entire rest of the peaceful world) is doing a damn lot. However, other nations are making the situation MUCH worse...

[ulvesang]

but when did the beauty of human biodiversity have to do with politics?

[LibLabDog]

Ulvesang said:

but when did the beauty of human biodiversity have to do with politics?

There are plenty of places in the world where genocide is still occuring, but no one is doing anything about it. ...Most likely because of a disassociation to their suffering due to genetic differences.

Race is based on sex, and sexual attraction.

[LibLabDog]

Ulvesang said:

exactly: for its "world democracy," the UN messes up a lot. Israel, anyone?

So you take comfort in the fact that the U.N. messes up a lot. ....Ok.

Israel anyone?

Ok, I'm curious. I'll bite. Being that you're German, would like to know what do you think should have happened following WWII, if not the formation of a Jewish State?

What do you think should happen now, to bring peace to the land that some call Palestine, and other's Israel?

And please give an actual answer. ...Not "Hellooooo U.N.?" ...Two letter answers really don't suffice.

[ulvesang]

OK, I'll explain... I've had a bit too much wine tonight so bear with me.

The Jews are a displaced people and need a home, deserve a home. A lot of them are good people, with a somewhat progressive policy, and fundamentalism tends to be not so common in them as in Islam. However, you just can't go taking other people's land, especially when they're bass-ackwards traditionalist fundamentalist ancient tribes. This further fueled the flames of a region competely wracked by cultural and racial mixture that is VERY unhealthy. Unfortunately I've found that multiculturalism doesn't work... every nation (culture) needs to have its own soverignty, own land, own gov't, etc. That goes for Jews, Sunnis, Kurds, Chechnyans, Gypsies, etc.

This is the problem with the UN. It is NOT a world democracy. EVERY SINGLE NATION needs to be represented, in a sort of parliament. Right now, anyone not in the UN is still at risk to UN intervention. That's idiotic. E.g. I am not Muslim, and so am not subject to Muslim laws. No matter how "horrible" some nation is, they need to have their fair voice in the UN.

Another huge problem is: religion. These people are all attached to the same damn "holy land" for some reason and will forever fight to the death over it until they compromise and realize that either they can all have it, or none. I say that the best thing to happen would be if they finally level the city of Jerusalem in their fighting.

So what should've happened is that a large, New World country such as the USA, Australia, Canada, etc. sold some of its excess land to the Jews. Then once they have an economy of their own, COMPLETELY lose all bonds to other nations. I'm tired of this proxy-war bullshit in the Middle East between pro-Israel and pro-Islam. I hate both, personally. Chain off the entire wasteland "holy land" of theirs and let them kill each other off. In 5 years the whole region would be a nuclear wasteland.

Then, supporting groups in the Middle East pushing for their own soverignty. First, separate all the myraid mess of different people in the Middle East. Arabs here, Kurds there, Sunnis there, etc. Then we need to be NICE to these people and remove all industrial colonization bullshit from these countries. Next, give assistance to people who are trying to speak out to reform Islam. Islam REALLY needs a "Protestant" movement right about now, for the good of Muslims and non-Muslims both. Once they've become content in practicing their ways inside their own borders, without trying to wipe out the world, then maybe trade can recommence. But there's been SERIOUS wounds there, over 2000 years deep in some cases. We need to sort out the rational, peaceful people who want to change for the better from the crazies. Don't do anything with the crazies, but give support for the PEACEFUL reformers.

Israel cannot be ignored either: all fundamentalist Judaism needs to be viewed as just as frightening. It doesn't matter what happened to them in the past: everyone's been at the hilt AND the blade of the sword at some time in their histories.

Once these countries are secure, all the asylum-seekers will go home. And if they don't want to go home, then they're not asylum-seekers, now are they? They're just political conquerors. Once these cultures and identities have been sifted through, then maybe, just maybe they can work on some "religous pilgrimage" treaty making some sort of DMZ where all believers can come to these places to worship, and share it.

If no one can EVER give up land for the benefit of another, then maybe the Jews can just use their money to build a New Israel in space, then sell the design to the Kurds.

[Solomon]

Ulvesang said:

A lot of them are good people, with a somewhat progressive policy, and fundamentalism tends to be not so common in them as in Islam.

Thanks for the compliment, don't do us any favors

However, you just can't go taking other people's land, especially when they're bass-ackwards traditionalist fundamentalist ancient tribes.

Israelis didn't steal it; the British promised it to them. The Jews gave Arabs 3/4 of mandatory Palestine, and they're currently working on giving them another piece of the Holy Land, thanks to the UN.

The UN is a joke, period.

I say that the best thing to happen would be if they finally level the city of Jerusalem in their fighting.

Maybe for you and the UN, but Jerusalem has been a Jewish city for a couple thousand years now, and Israelis aren't about to let it go. However, they will share.

[LibLabDog]

Well,

I'll admit that's interesting reading. And it's clear you've put some thought into it. It's not quite what I expected. Kinda of a hyper-tollerance for ethnic identity.

So I imagine many Europians and Muslims might agree that the map of the Middle East should be SIGNIFICANTLY redrawn. ...To seperate all these identities into ethnic Nation States. (No wonder Turkey must be freaking out. They'd loose half their country to a new Kurdistan.)

While your writing leaves me a lot to consider, I'm not entirely convinced I will agree with you once I've hashed it out in my mind. You can divide up the land for various people, but people never stay put. ...Your solution still wouldn't have any plan for the overflows that occur on a pretty regular basis as ethnicities have population surges. (Like in Albania recently.)

I guess I have some problems with what your advocating, because I don't think every group should go to their own seperate corner, and speak their own separate language. ...I have admiration for nations like India, the United States, and even France, who can make a polyglot of people work together. And in some ways, these polyglot cultures have their own advantages.

(I can't help think, how if Europe REALLY felt this way, they'd be pretty serious about border control, and restricting immigration entirely. But they're not.)

But all that aside, I'll have to seriously consider what you've said.

[LibLabDog]

Solomon said:

Israelis didn't steal it; the British promised it to them. The Jews gave Arabs 3/4 of mandatory Palestine, and they're currently working on giving them another piece of the Holy Land, thanks to the UN.

Ooooooh man!! I can see the Brits slowly inching out of the room on that one! Is that what Jews do? ...Implicate their friends?