Post by Cerdic on Jun 25, 2004 7:31:18 GMT -5
The relations between the Irish and British has a long and complex history, one that outsiders, particularly Americans (though not all), tend to have rather simplistic view of.
First and foremost there is a sharp distiction between attitudes to nationality and the states involved and that between people. In general Irish and English people get on well together, there is a huge amount of common cultural ground between them. There is a distinct lack of any real feeling of mutual foreigness, much less than between the English and Americans for example. Citizens of the Republic of Ireland have, and always have had, automatic rights of abode in Britain, and on becoming resident in the UK have immediate rights to vote in local and national elections (this was true long before the EU).
Having said this, there has been and continues to be a problem over the two national identities which are found in the island of Ireland. Unfortunately the island contains people who view themselves as "British" and others (the majority overall) who see themselves as "Irish." This split is due to historical reasons going back many centuries, but the two communities' views and objectives are fundmentally opposed. This is why the "peace process" in Ulster is still so fraught.
Historically anti-Irish feeling in Britain was largely based on anti-Catholic prejudice which was common to native English Catholics also. In the 19th C, following the Potato Famine, and the increasing industrialisation of Britain very many Irish migrated to Britain. Anti Irish sentiment in this period was largely based on the perceived threat that "cheap Irish labour" had a detrimental effect on the wages and job security of the native British working class people. Neither of these conditions pertain today, and consequently there is virtually no anti Irish prejudice to be found in Britain at present. Even IRA bombing campaigns in Britain failed to produce any generalised anti-Irish sentiment.
The Victorian caricatures shown earlier must be viewed in their context. Firstly, though certainly prejudicial, they were caricatures not, on the whole to be taken too literally. Just as caricaturists today produce an architype of a person (Bush as a chimp for example) which becomes instantly recognisable, British caricaturists of the past did the same for various national groups. They produced an instantly recognisable "Frenchman" during the Napoleonic Wars, as equally unflattering as the "Irishman" generated at much the same time. The "Frenchman" was: thin with stick like limbs (usualy akimbo), had long straggling hair, he had a long almost cadaverous face and pop-eyes, finally he had a protruding mouth with large pendulous lips. As someone who cannot, untill they open their mouths to speak, tell an English person from either an Irish person or a Northern French person, the caricatures seem of very limited veracity.
First and foremost there is a sharp distiction between attitudes to nationality and the states involved and that between people. In general Irish and English people get on well together, there is a huge amount of common cultural ground between them. There is a distinct lack of any real feeling of mutual foreigness, much less than between the English and Americans for example. Citizens of the Republic of Ireland have, and always have had, automatic rights of abode in Britain, and on becoming resident in the UK have immediate rights to vote in local and national elections (this was true long before the EU).
Having said this, there has been and continues to be a problem over the two national identities which are found in the island of Ireland. Unfortunately the island contains people who view themselves as "British" and others (the majority overall) who see themselves as "Irish." This split is due to historical reasons going back many centuries, but the two communities' views and objectives are fundmentally opposed. This is why the "peace process" in Ulster is still so fraught.
Historically anti-Irish feeling in Britain was largely based on anti-Catholic prejudice which was common to native English Catholics also. In the 19th C, following the Potato Famine, and the increasing industrialisation of Britain very many Irish migrated to Britain. Anti Irish sentiment in this period was largely based on the perceived threat that "cheap Irish labour" had a detrimental effect on the wages and job security of the native British working class people. Neither of these conditions pertain today, and consequently there is virtually no anti Irish prejudice to be found in Britain at present. Even IRA bombing campaigns in Britain failed to produce any generalised anti-Irish sentiment.
The Victorian caricatures shown earlier must be viewed in their context. Firstly, though certainly prejudicial, they were caricatures not, on the whole to be taken too literally. Just as caricaturists today produce an architype of a person (Bush as a chimp for example) which becomes instantly recognisable, British caricaturists of the past did the same for various national groups. They produced an instantly recognisable "Frenchman" during the Napoleonic Wars, as equally unflattering as the "Irishman" generated at much the same time. The "Frenchman" was: thin with stick like limbs (usualy akimbo), had long straggling hair, he had a long almost cadaverous face and pop-eyes, finally he had a protruding mouth with large pendulous lips. As someone who cannot, untill they open their mouths to speak, tell an English person from either an Irish person or a Northern French person, the caricatures seem of very limited veracity.
