Post by SwordandCompass on Jun 30, 2004 20:50:16 GMT -5
generally speaking anyone who speaks spanish and or portuguese will not be considered "white" to mass americans because most americans are of northern european ancestry.but the funny thing is italians in american have been in america in high numbers and italians are considered "white" in america.for example, read this www.lusaweb.com/voices/html/pride.cfm
remeber every group of europe has felt this. and i mean every group. but with the portuguese and spanish there numbers are very small in america so they still fell it.
the spanish in new york eastcoast,idaho(lots of basque in idaho sheep farmers) california.same with the portuguese but with every community of the portuguese the brazilians follow.
Post by SwordandCompass on Jun 30, 2004 21:10:59 GMT -5
i want to add this the iberians in california are associated with mexicans not so much racially but religiously (roman catholic).i have no problem with someone calling me hispanic.if i say im hispanic they will think "mexican" but if i dont say anything, hide my pride, they wouldnt give it a second thought. iberian pride world wide! ;D
generally speaking anyone who speaks spanish and or portuguese will not be considered "white" to mass americans because most americans are of northern european ancestry.but the funny thing is italians in american have been in america in high numbers and italians are considered "white" in america.
It's funny that you say this because I am a Spanish-American and I have never been considered "non-White." Do I have dark hair and relatively dark skin? Yes. To those who are more knowledgeable about anthropology, do I fit into the Mediterranid subrace the most? Yes. But as I said before, many fair-skinned Nordics (far more Nordic than anyone at Skadi and any racialist I have ever befriended) were surprised that I had a Spanish first and last name. One redheaded Irish teacher with fair skin asked if I was a product of some type of artificial birth and was adopted by Spanish parents. Perhaps this has something to do with my UP features (I am largely of Canary Island descent, so you Nordniks can f*ck off about the alleged Neolithic ).
I have to admit that I have seen Southern Italians I wasn't sure were fully European. Some Southern Europeans do in fact look "Levantine." This doesn't mean they are non-European, but that there is some truth to Nordicist claims, just as there is some truth to claims by Medicists that some Nords are largely Mongoloid (which happens to be a view supported by Coon).
I have also seen some Dinaric-looking Greeks I just could not relate to. Spaniards as a whole happen to be much less Dinaricized than Greeks and Italians, which is why I believe they are considered by many to be the most attractive Meds.
Anyway, of the few Spanish-Americans I have seen, some were Nordics and Meds, and perhaps a few have been Alpines and Dinarics. I generally don't cluster Latin Americans as Spanish, but I recognize that many are purely European.
Holding my hand, Long hair flowing with the wind, Atop a grassy hill, Sunny blue skies and flowers everywhere. Scantily clad with a rose in your hair, Your fingertips, Pressing near your lips, Nature's entheogenic magic.
I dunno, based on my own personal experiences, most of the White Americans I come across do indeed consider Spaniards "white" . Not all of course. As for Portugeuse, I really don't know. I have a Portugeuse co-worker (actually his is a manager) who looks pretty darn Nordic to me----blondish hair , not sure what eye color. If you I saw him walking down the street, I'd think he was German or Swedish. But the Spaniards, based on my experience all over the USA are almost always considerd "white".
It should be noted however that confusion really reigns in the USA among the average Joe about what a Spaniard really is. Many confuse Mexican Mestizos (such as myself) with Spaniards.
Frankly, I ain't really sure myself what the Spaniards appearance really is--only that most White Americans all over the USA think they are "white".
The city I live in is a major tourist attraction-----and thats about the ONLY way I ever come across Spaniards.
Post by SwordandCompass on Jul 1, 2004 2:43:07 GMT -5
"Hispanics" are generally in american considered non white. i dont care about "white nationalists" or "nordists" debating with them is useless. exposing them is better i.e what that guy did (racial myths aka medhammer) and all other that followed his lead.anyway like i said if i never said i was (iberian) people wouldnt ever guessed i was from that great penninsular IBERIA! you get what im saying?
My understanding is that Hispanics are a group who share a common culture and language. They're not a separate race. Most people consider Brazilians to be Hispanic for the sake of simplicity, although Brazil was colonized by Portugal. I sometimes wondered if Irish Cherokees can be classified in the same group as Spanish Mestizos, even though the first group tend to have lighter features.
Don't we, on this forum, spend a little too much time on the viewpoints of Americans and some Canadians. From my knowledge of America and Americans I find that they tend to be conservative, dwelling on the outdated opinions of the past, that is, 18 - 19th century writers on race and sub races, people like Madison Grant. You only have to read his Nordic obsessed writings to realise that anyone with that type of obsession in going to believe that it was mislocated Nordics who founded all the civilisations and that the inhabitants of south Europe are the descendents of slaves aka Levantines. Afterall was not America founded on bondservants and slavery, did not the founders own slaves, so Europe must be similar to what Americans see around them in their country. Unlike galvez, I have not seen many non European Italians or Levantines. Dark skin is not that common in Italy. Matt white to light brown skin is common, but I wouldn't call that dark. Dark skin is more common in the eastern Mediterranean and the Levant. Even so, the people of the Levant that is Syria and Lebanon are very close to European in looks. So if some Italians look Levantine, which I don't believe, then they still look European. North African is another matter. Their features are too different. I think it would be easy to pick out a European from a North African. In Italy most Europeans would look Italian provided they dressed appropriately and kept their mouths shut. It wouldn't matter whether you had blond hair or green eyes or skin pinker than a typical American hog. Italians don't use Italians to portray Middle Easterners or North Africans. They use various North Africans/Middle Easterners/Turks to portray these foreign types. Ever seen Inspector Montalbano which is set in Sicily?
In Australia the Portuguese keep a low profile, but the ones I have met are very attached to their homeland and most return to Portugal. The ones I have met have looked European, white to me. The US attitudes to Portuguese expressed in the lusaweb site is typical of the attitudes of Northwesterners to Southerners held in the 19th century. In Australia, in the 19th century, Southerners were considered to be coloured and often refused entry. It happened to Maltese people in the 19th century even though they were British. The only thing about the story was that it seemed to be set in the 20th century in the US. As I said, Americans are conservative and hang on to outdated opinions.
Post by buddyrydell on Jul 11, 2004 19:20:12 GMT -5
Interesting subject. I really couldn't care less but I believe that non-Hispanic whites are supposed to be around 50% or so of the U.S. population by 2050. I don't worry about that because as far as I'm concerned, diversity makes a society more interesting. As for this talk about some southern Italians looking "Levantine," there are some but they are definitely a minority. As someone who's half Sicilian, I can tell you that my dad and most of my paternal relatives look like the average southern European, with a few who are a bit darker than the norm and look "Levantine." I don't know if I can fully agree with Graeme's notion that North Africans are completely different in appearance. Are most North Africans darker than southern Europeans? Yes of course, but there is a minority of North Africans that is light enough to look southern European. North Africans on average have deeper olive skin and curlier hair than southern Europeans, but they are still Caucasoid for the most part. I can agree that Levantines are more similar, but there is still some overlap with North Africans. I can tell you that Italians, Spaniards, Greeks, and other southern Europeans are definitely accepted here in the U.S. as white wherever one travels, despite the fact that most white Americans are of northern European descent.
Post by buddyrydell on Jul 12, 2004 0:10:17 GMT -5
That Italian singer is a good example of a darker Italian. He could pass for someone from the eastern shores of the Mediterranean, but of course he's not representative of what the average Italian looks like. I'll try and post some pics of more typical Italians in the future.
Last Edit: Jul 12, 2004 0:11:37 GMT -5 by buddyrydell
Although I have posted the link to the latest writings on Samuel Huntington----perhaps I did not give him a proper introduction;
Samuel P. Huntington is Albert J. Weatherhead III University Professor. and Chairman of the Harvard Academy of International and Area Studies. At Harvard he has served as director of the Center for International Affairs, chairman of the Harvard Academy for International and Area Studies, and chairman of the Department of Government. During 1986-1987 he was president of the American Political Science Association, and in 1977 and 1978 he served at the White House as Coordinator of Security Planning for the National Security Council. He was a founder and coeditor for seven years of the journal, Foreign Policy. His principal books include The Soldier and the State: The Theory and Politics of Civil-Military Relations (1957), The Common Defense: Strategic Programs in National Politics (1961), Political Order in Changing Societies (1968), American Politics: The Promise of Disharmony (1981), The Third Wave: Democratization in the Late Twentieth Century (1991), The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order (1996), and Who Are We? The Challenges to America's Mational Identity (2004). His principal interests are: (1) national security, strategy, and civil military relations; (2) democratization and political and economic development of the less developed countries; (3) cultural factors in world politics; and (4) American national identity.
Here is a link to an excerpt on his latest book; WHO ARE WE.
He speaks of the USA's "Hispanic Challenge", IF a discussion evolves here, I will start to rip his thesis apart piece by piece. Then again, perhaps this is not the proper forum for such a discussion since there are many non Americans. Anyhow, just thought I would throw this out.
I would just like to add for non Americans that the US Census counts Middle Easterners as White---just as they did until 1970 for "Hispanics"
Secondly, keep in mind that the US Census counts "Hispanics" as white if they indicate thats what best decribes them.
Finally, to get a real feel for how many whites there really are (at least until the US Census separates Middle Easterners from the WHITE column), what you really want to look at is ; NON HISPANIC WHITE
Thats what we would generally consider white.
So, given that this is largely a site for whites--thats what you want to look at; NON HISPANIC WHITE
a one-quarter mestizo is closer genetically to a western european than a "caucasian" from persia
if you look at the projection for white genes (as a % of total gene pool) youll find it is still north of two-thirds in 2050. hardly a wipe-out for the whites