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Post by arthas on Aug 24, 2005 11:59:30 GMT -5
Kastrioti is probably a latin corruption from the name of the north albanian clan Kastrati a last name that still exist among many north albanians and kosovar albanians. Kastrioti like many other albanian nobels did claim to be descendans of ancient epirots and macedonians kind of like todays macedonian slavs of former yugoslavia, but they never claimed to be greeks. I think its kind of hard for a greek historical figure to be mistaken for albanian because all have heard about greeks but very few about albanians. In this answer of skanderbeg to the italian prince that insults both him and albanians. Skanderbeg dont make difference betwen albanians and epirots. only the part of the letters that mentions nationality ÒGiovanni Antonio, Prince of Taranto, to Georgio albanese, greeting. You will find other men who all support your proud appearance (?) and no one will avoid your face. Our Italian soldiers will challenge you very well and have no fear of the Albanese. We already know your generation and respect the Albanese like sheep, and it is an embarrassment to have such cowardly people for enemies; (neÕ?) would you have embarked on such a business if you had stayed to dwell in your house.
ÒGiorgio, gentleman of Albania, to Giovanni Antonio, Prince of Taranto, greeting.Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. My elders were from Epirus, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies.
I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?
In the past the Albanese have (fatto?) experience if the Pugilese were armed; (neÕ) I would again find some who would have been able to aspired to my nature. I have well noted from the back how many of your soldiers are well armed but have never been able to see their helmets or (tanpoco?) the face except those that have become prisoners. (NeÕ?) I seek your house (Bastandomi?) my own. Besides, it is well known that you often would have shot your neighbors for their possessions, as now you would force out the king of your house and your kingdom.
You can see that the italian call him albanese if he was greek he would call him that because im very sure that Italians at that time have heard about greeks. And at the end i dint think that anyone cares anyway
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geo
Full Member
hellene
Posts: 135
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Post by geo on Aug 25, 2005 11:55:01 GMT -5
if he was greek he would call him that Would he? When even the greeks of the time were calling themselves... romans, 'romioi'? I doubt.
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Post by Scanderbeg on Aug 27, 2005 1:24:33 GMT -5
Albanians don't even call themselves Albanian, never did and never will, that is a name given to them by the foreigners and they got that name based on the Ilirian tribe Albani that lived there, also based on the city Albanopolis...They used the name Arbër, and the country Arbëria!!!Now they are called Shqipëtarë, which come from the word eagle in Albanian Shqiponja!!!Albanians are infact the ancient Ilirians (blood, linguistics, anthropology, ethnic map of people etc.) and there are many words that in fact prove this, everyday ordinary words like thika (knive) shpata (sword) etc.!!! So stop that slavic propaganda, and just because slavs didn't have a good history than don't try to steal someone elses history!!
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Post by OdinofOssetia on Aug 27, 2005 23:52:05 GMT -5
Interesting link: Especially pages 3-7 www.stanford.edu/~cakarz/articles/KaplanResuli-english.pdfA VERY honest interview of the member of the Albanian Acadamy of Sciences and Arts. This is a small extract from the text. Please read the whole text. "The oldest evidenced text in an albanian language is “Formula ë paleximit” (Formula for communion), translated from Latin in 8-11-1462 by the Montenegrin Pavle Angjelich, whom the Albanians have albanised with the name Pal Engylli. The first book in albanian is “Meshari” (The Book of Thoughts), a manual for religious sermons, dates from 1555 and is written by the Croatian Ivan Buzuk and published in Montenegro. And, understandably, they albanise him with the name Gjon Buzuku. For your information, the first primer in albanian, after the proclamation of the albanian independence is a work of “Slavs” and Vlachs. Dositej Obradovich is the first in history who opens a school in albanian language, while it was exactly Serbia which was the first state to recognise independent Albania. The Macedonians have a significant input in the development of the albanian culture. For example, one of the oldest publishers in Albania is the Macedonian Petar Budi (1566-1622) who has published three books in albanian, and also a Macedonian is Jovan Kukuzel, whom the Albanians have claimed as their own and have albanised with the name Jan Kukuzeli, although it is known that when he was born in Drach, XI century, here there still is not even one Albanian. Let me remind you also of Grigor Prlichev (1830-1893) who for some time is a teacher in Tirana and published the wonderful poem “Skenderbeg”. Undeniable is the fact that always at the forefront of all of their positive processes the Albanians had namely non Albanians.Lets mention, as well, at this opportune time only Georgi Kastriot – Skenderbeg, of an undeniable “Slavic” ancestry, Naim Frasheri (a Vlach, an albanian national poet) or Fan Noli (a Greek, whose real name is Theofanos Mavromatis), Petar Bogdan, a Serb, or Ismail Kemali, a Turk who was proclaiming the albanian independence in 1912. As you can see, the foundations of the albanian culture and statehood are laid by non Albanians, from which a large number are “Slavs”, but that does not stand in the way of the albanian nationalists, or “marxists-leninists”, all the same, to thump their chests and declare that they have achieved everything by themselves and that the other people (nations), especially the “Slavs” have only been their enemies.
Add to the above that Skanderbeg was a Macedonian.
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Post by Scanderbeg on Aug 28, 2005 1:21:19 GMT -5
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Post by Dienekes on Aug 28, 2005 2:01:22 GMT -5
Avoid excessive quoting if you are going to give a one sentence reply.
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Post by Dienekes on Aug 28, 2005 2:13:17 GMT -5
Georgios Kastriotis was a Greek, and Albanians are not from the Caucasus.
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qnzkid711
New Member
"Ai q? nd?rton me djers?, mbron me gjak."
Posts: 32
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Post by qnzkid711 on Aug 28, 2005 10:02:15 GMT -5
Dienekes, considering you here are the admin and are supposed to represent a neutral figure between the people here I really ask to avoid such comments. Especially considering the majority of info out there goes against this. or atleast I ask you dont place such authority in the posts... But what can I say when the mod here calls for the change of ethnicity of the very city I come from. Anyway here are some final thing *Kruja has been the center of the Albanian people for centuries since Byzantium gave it autonomy. *John Kastrioti was its ruler. *While Kastriotis is used in Greece, I have already shown evidence from scholas who have studied the character that Castrion was a popular toponym throughout Byzantine Empire and thus many names derived from people who came from there. The name is also popular as an Alb last name. Most people with the name Kastrioti in Albania come from the region of Kastrati from northern Albania, which in the time of the Romans was Castrum and became, surprise surprise, Castrion during the Byzantine Empire. *The use of the Byzantine flag by the Kastrioti family is not a good arguement due to the fact that nearly all Albanian families had adopted the double headed eagle, including the Dukagjini. Furthermore it was used earlier among the Albanian Principality called Arbenon. *The term Epirotian was nothing more then a Medieval latin term for Albania. It was likely a geographical thing due to the fact that Albania itself was home to Epirus and Epirus Nova in the empire, thus Scanderbeg stating his descedants were Epirotians from the lines of Pyrrhus(remember he was speaking with the Prince of Tarranto, whom Pyrrhus was allied to in the past to save it from the Romans) in a way to put down the Prince. But on top of that it was nothing more then Medieval identity. This first Croatian dictionary was called Illyrian language. Here you go: i17.photobucket.com/albums/b89/albanija1/TheoldestCroatianSLASHSlavenicvocab.jpgWhile the first Albanian dictionary was called Latin - Epirotian language. See here: img191.imageshack.us/img191/4049/bardhi4ln.jpgThus that itself cannot be seen as a good arguement. *When Imathia is discussed as the land inwhich John Kastrioti ruled it DOES NOT refer to Imathia in Hellenic Macedonia but Imathia in northern Albania next to Kruja. Same with Petar Budi, who was an Albanian from mainland Albania but he claimed descent from Alexander. In those days you claimed decent from the land you came from. The part of Albania called Imathia was in ancient days part of the Roman province of Macedonia(not the ancient hellenic one) *When John Kastrioti II landed in Italy after Albania fell, he was seen as an Albanian and helped settle the runaway Albanian refugees in southern italy. *Scanderbeg did raids in Thessaly and Macedonia in order to loot goods inwhich he brought back to Albania. It doesnt look like he was very aware of his origins. Plus to those having fun posting articles from Kaplan Resuli or Fatos Lubonja, I hope you realize both are forced Albanian Serb and Fyromian who now hate the country due to Hoxha's persecution. Kaplan Resuli- Burovich and Lubonja is an Albanized Serb name. I believe its original is Lubovitch... archives.vmacedonia.com/2938.htmAn interview with one of these idiots. Hoxha often went about removing the OV in many of these last names. Oh and, hello everyone. I just recently came back from vacation. I believe out Gjon derives from the Greek Ion also. We call the Ionian sea Jon. I dont know how the G was added but probably is just a linguistical evolution. I would be interested in seeing how teh Arvanites pronounce it. Though by its original would probably be bastardized also. Yes but Albanians were largely Catholic, including George. We had large influence for the Papacy. I was just discussing the view on a historical basis. In that era a Greek was defined by Greek Orthodoxy, even, like much of my family, they did not speak Greek. As stated above, this has not ceased with many Albanians. I've even seen some say they desceded from Pyrrhus line. Yet fail to realize that Epirotians, whether hellenized Illyrians or not, were hellenistic in everyway possible... As the Byzantine Empire began to die out the term hellene actually came into use again
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Post by Scanderbeg on Aug 28, 2005 21:45:40 GMT -5
I am very sorry to disapoint anyone who thought that Albanians are from where ever they said that we were but here is some REAL evidence!!!I am not trying to claim anything just watch for yourself!!! Preserved Illyrian head sculpting.... Gjergj Kastrioti "Skenderbe" - the Albanian National Hero A typical Albanian Conclusion: Luctor is a "Albanian Hater" so don't even deal with his crap anymore...if u don't believe me go to Illyria forums, he writes the same thing, and tries in every post to make Albanians look bad, I don't know, probably he is jelaous that KOSOVA is ALBANIAN, forever was, and forever will be, no matter how much serbs were trying to change that fact by ethnic cleansing!!! Some of u probably think that most Albanians in Albania and even in other places are mostly muslim and that's why u don't like us, but the truth is that muslims in Albania are no more, there are twice more christians and not to mention atheists in there than there are muslims!!!
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Post by Scanderbeg on Aug 29, 2005 19:23:19 GMT -5
If he was Greek, than why didn't he fight for the Greeks?? and how come u don't have any statues of him??? Also his predecessors, who are in Italy (Arberesh), they said that they are Albanian and many of his warriors predecessors said that they are Albanian (Arber) so yeah...
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Post by Crimson Guard on Aug 29, 2005 19:52:40 GMT -5
Your Albanian word for sword is very close to the Italian word Spada(sword),no doubt comes from the latin Spata(long Sword).
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Post by Scanderbeg on Aug 29, 2005 21:42:22 GMT -5
Your Albanian word for sword is very close to the Italian word Spada(sword),no doubt comes from the latin Spata(long Sword). So if someone else has it, then it is their word huh?? That's what the Greeks were saying about the "fustanella", but in the end we found out that it was in fact Ilirian!
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Post by Beretta on Aug 29, 2005 23:10:52 GMT -5
lol come on man Kastarioti was never Albanian EVER!! Its not like Greeks care about him or anything its just that he happened to be of Greek origins thats all, we dont mind if you albos claim him as your naional hero, after all bulgarians from FyROM claim alexander the Great as theirs, hey next maybe we can give the serbs another one of our heros too, and then the Bosnians and the rest of you Balkan trashI am very sorry to disapoint anyone who thought that Albanians are from where ever they said that we were but here is some REAL evidence!!!I am not trying to claim anything just watch for yourself!!! Preserved Illyrian head sculpting.... Gjergj Kastrioti "Skenderbe" - the Albanian National Hero A typical Albanian quote] LOL whats these ridiculous pictures you posted huh? the first pic you put is of some half assed unrealistic rock statue, the second one is a recent cartoon drawing of Skenderbe, and the last one is of some old albanian villager, wait a minute, the egg shaped hats are the same.....this must mean that albanians are Ilyyrians is this suppose to prove that albanians are direct descendents of Illyrians lol , your not Illyrian handle it, you have no proof, albanian claim they are Pelasgians, Illyrians Romans etc with no proof, who knows what albanians are
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Post by Beretta on Aug 29, 2005 23:13:18 GMT -5
Your Albanian word for sword is very close to the Italian word Spada(sword),no doubt comes from the latin Spata(long Sword). So if someone else has it, then it is their word huh?? That's what the Greeks were saying about the "fustanella", but in the end we found out that it was in fact Ilirian! Lol again with the Illyrian, get over your NOT illyrian, and the foustanella is a Greek thing that started in Epirus, only the most southern of albanians wear it in the Northern Epirus region , the rest of the albs wear something like this LOL ;D Faleminderit shumë
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Post by Crimson Guard on Aug 30, 2005 2:18:55 GMT -5
<<Georgios Kastriotis was a Greek, and Albanians are not from the Caucasus. >>
Actually their was an Albania located in the Caucasus/Crimea area as was their another Iberia...but this of course has no relation to the Albania of the Balkans,just that the Roman's used these names more than once(which was covered on the previous page). *It seems these Albanian nationalist are confusing/merging the 2 unrelated Albania's together for unknown reasons here... I cant imagine why though?!
Kastriotis or Kastrioti is deffinitly a Greek or Italian origin name.
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