Katea
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Post by Katea on Jun 27, 2004 11:31:16 GMT -5
Is there any evidence to back it up though? Empirical evidence? - not sure. The article wasn't an academic paper, it was more like a popular science article. Can't remember precisely what publication it was. (& my copy is currently in a box in an attict on the other side of the world - so a wee bit difficult to check right now ) To be honest, it would be very difficult to prove empirically (it would be impossible to control for all the other potential compounding factors). As I remember, the article was a "key reference" in a rather lame social psychology assignment, & I seem to remember the whole point of the assignment was to argure whether the idea was plausible. I seem to remember something about there being other modern societal factors that might cause an apparent boost to a girls apparent IQ, like changing gender roles in modern society. I think one of the additional ideas is that the girls academic performance is boosted as they are no-longer as constrained by gender roles, whereas for the boys, their "role" is less defined. ( bear in mind, it was four or five years ago that I did this assignment, so my memory is a bit hazy on specifics)
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Post by Vitor on Jun 27, 2004 13:18:09 GMT -5
Academic results are no way associated with more intelligence...allthough that helps... In Portugal there are obvioulsy more girls at university, BY FAR. 75% of all the students are womens... My university degree, was taken in a completely girl dominated world. In portugal Even math is already dominated by girls.... They are not more bright but they manage to study more, sometimes I got some inovative ideas, that they were unable to get. But they had better results that most man. Some of the best males students were stupid, no inovative ideas, only absorbing ideas from other's peoples. Because In portugal to get in a university what is required is high grades, we are getting more of those persons, wonderfull in absorbing ideas, without new ideas capabilities. In my student time I had some discussion with a women professor, I had some crazy idea that worked better than their's idea, using 4 algorithm and using a non orthodox way to calculate, with joining some my "crazy" algorithms that I implemented, discarding some of the "rules" in the job. I ended up getting ALLWAYS better results in the process optimization, but ended up getting a lower grade... (I still believe that women professor has a low IQ , but she was excellent in scholl even getting a great ph degree, (with some help from outside, for sure) Better grades doesn't mean anything! If we look at the japanese society, they don't invent anything, only are capable of improving... Why? inovation and contesting the boss is forbidden (japanese society), they are like ants, following the leader. who invented: -television -transistors -integrated chips -etc... some of those without any degree at all... All MALES INVENTIONS! An world dominated by womens would be a stagnant world (allthough a better world, and more peacefull), but without any improvments... Don't get me wrong, there are inovative girls (with Higher IQ), but the the inovative girls are not the ones getting into the university, of course some get there...
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Sandwich
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La pens?e d'un homme est avant tout sa nostalgie
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Post by Sandwich on Jun 27, 2004 13:37:47 GMT -5
Sure, the ability to work hard is at least as important as the ability to detect regularities for yourself, at university level and probably even more so in real life. If you don't do the work, you're not really going to be able to exercise your abilities very significantly.
Now that fertility is not the sole determinant of women's fate, things are going to change. Perhaps we haven't realized quite how big a change effective birth control was. Things that are hardwired into men and women are going to be less relevant.
As for the Japanese, I think it's the consensus they're not allowed to question rather than the boss, although the two go together, since the boss IS the consensus in some ways. What have the Japanese ever invented? The red lantern and a slightly better soy sauce? So goes the old joke anyway - but having a society like China right next to you, where they invent everything, you probably get into the habit of importing ideas. I have to say, of all the peoples I'm glad I'm not part of, I think the Japanese come top.
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Post by captainusa1 on Jun 27, 2004 17:01:29 GMT -5
Social psychologists tend to think that the lowering IQ of males (relative to females) is due to sociological effects of being raised in a single parent family (specifically, one lacking a father) - ie. the effects on young boys of not having a father figure. The cause of the apparent IQ lowering is not genetic, its just more often associated with lower socioeconomic groups. I can't remember the exact reference for this (I learned this a few years ago, & my reference notes are on the opposite side of the planet). Bear in mind that IQ is affected by a combination of genetics and environment (genetics determines a potential IQ range, environment determines actual IQ). You hit the nail on the head. I think that's a great explanation. I didn't know that there was a new gap between the IQ's of boys and girls in favor of the latter, though. Do you remember what studies showed this to be the case?
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Post by Ptolemy on Jun 27, 2004 17:03:24 GMT -5
Academic results are no way associated with more intelligence...allthough that helps... In Portugal there are obvioulsy more girls at university, BY FAR. 75% of all the students are womens... My university degree, was taken in a completely girl dominated world. In portugal Even math is already dominated by girls.... They are not more bright but they manage to study more, sometimes I got some inovative ideas, that they were unable to get. But they had better results that most man. Some of the best males students were stupid, no inovative ideas, only absorbing ideas from other's peoples. Como Vai Vitor!!! Anyway, I approach this subject with some timidness, but traditionally, men are/were considered more driven. Wouldn't motivation be one of the first attributes to disappear in a dysgenic population?? I'm no expert in IQ, but I am a teacher at a highschool and working on my masters at a Univ., and I can't help notice how women outnumber men. Not only that, the women are better students. This just doesn't seem right I am 44 years old, and this was not the case in my generation. Men always excelled and were more driven and agressive, and women played second fiddle. I'm old fashioned. My wife and daughters will kill me if they read this.
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Katea
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Post by Katea on Jun 27, 2004 17:22:40 GMT -5
You hit the nail on the head. I think that's a great explanation. I didn't know that there was a new gap between the IQ's of boys and girls in favor of the latter, though. Do you remember what studies showed this to be the case? Actually, I think it was probably achievement rather than IQ per se. Sorry, can't remember the studies from memory (4 years and my notes are several thousand km away).
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Post by captainusa1 on Jun 27, 2004 17:51:50 GMT -5
Actually, I think it was probably achievement rather than IQ per se. Sorry, can't remember the studies from memory (4 years and my notes are several thousand km away). Oh, yeah! There's an achievement gap between males and females that seemed to start with the so-called Gen X'ers. Women outnumber men in college now. On the flip side, more women are engaging in negative behavior like violent crime.
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Post by Agrippa on Jun 28, 2004 16:48:19 GMT -5
Numerus clausus with grades is something I really dislike and think is counterproductive.
If there should be a limitation for the university, tests or a 1-2 Semester in which just the best should "survive" might be far better.
Because in school it can be really ridiculous. Some people from better schools for which you need more to do for better grades or very intelligent but for a short time not to industrious people might be at disadvantage and thats not the way it should be.
For every area the best FOR THIS SUBJECT AND in general should study. Grades can be to relative.
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Post by Graeme on Jun 29, 2004 10:02:49 GMT -5
In Australia at secondary level, there are more girls finishing high school than boys and they do better than boys in most subjects. The dux, the top marks, are mostly girls and Asians, but that is another matter.
Education, controlled environments, doing what you are told, dealing with the system and the discipline to study are all female oriented. Males by and large are governed by testosterone, being independent, not doing what one is told and having fun. Boys do better in segregated schools whereas girls function well in both segregated and co-educational schools. In Australia most teachers are women, there is a lack of male presence and culture in schools. And to top things off many families are single parent families without the presence to the male parent. Boys and young men are floundering without the input of adult males.
When I was at university my campus was very female, not that it concerned me that much at the time, but it was understandable because my campus contained a media section and the biological sciences which attract more women than men. I remember telling this women not to do a particular class because she would bring the standard down. She was indigent. It is her right to do what she wants blah blah. Well she did bring the standard down. In an odd way it benefited me as I did correspondingly better. I also know women who did chemistry because it was not a female unit! That is a good reason to do subjects, isn't it? I found the women produce more collective work than individual efforts. They are not original but rehash what's done before slightly altered.
Do I think that it is bad? I am not sure, but I do see in Australia anyway that women have taken over and the role of the male in the workplace has shrunk. The job market is definitely the women's oyster, and I think that it will have implications in the near future like less marriage, less children, more short-term relationships, more instability between the sexes, no father role in family and a loss of productivity and creativity.
I can tell you that I will not accept a sub ordinate role in any relationship. Never.
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Sandwich
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La pens?e d'un homme est avant tout sa nostalgie
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Post by Sandwich on Jun 29, 2004 10:47:12 GMT -5
For ye have the poor always with you; but me you have not always" Matthew 26.11 In the end, the job market may find appropriate roles for people - but employers do like most people to be docile, and appreciate true creativity only in the chosen few.
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Post by eufrenio on Jun 29, 2004 10:56:23 GMT -5
Do I think that it is bad? I am not sure, but I do see in Australia anyway that women have taken over and the role of the male in the workplace has shrunk. The job market is definitely the women's oyster, and I think that it will have implications in the near future like less marriage, less children, more short-term relationships, more instability between the sexes, no father role in family and a loss of productivity and creativity. I can tell you that I will not accept a sub ordinate role in any relationship. Never. I totally agree with you Graeme! Women have been so busy establishing a "non-hostile" environment in the workplace, that it is just not suitable anymore for us men! Fred Reed wrote about this not too long ago: " When women entered a male workplace, they found that they didn’t much like it. Men told off-color jokes, looked at protuberant body parts, engaged in rough verbal sparring as a form of social interaction, and behaved in accord with rules that women didn’t and don’t understand. Women had the influence to change things, and did. Laws grew like kudzu to ban sexual harassment, whether real or imagined. Affirmative action, in addition to being a naked power grab, avoids competition and therefore making the losers feel bad. It degrades the performance of organizations, sometimes seriously, but performance is a preoccupation of males. Men are capable of malignant government, whether authoritarian or totalitarian, as witness North Korea or the Russia of Stalin. I don’t know whether women would behave as badly if they had the power. (I’d guess not.) But women have their own totalitarian tendencies. They will if allowed impose a seamless tyranny of suffocating safety, social control, and political propriety. Men are happy for men to be men and women to be women; women want us all to be women." www.fredoneverything.net/Feminization.shtmlAnd here´s a good resource for anti-feminism : www.angryharry.com/index.htmland another one: jkalb.org/book/view/2
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Post by Aria88 on Jun 29, 2004 12:45:02 GMT -5
Ptolemy, I empathize. It is no longer safe for a man to speak his mind.
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Post by Aria88 on Jun 29, 2004 12:54:32 GMT -5
Eufrenio, your words are those that pour forth from my own soul! You could not have said that better. I agree ad infinitum. I would also add that when women say they want equal rights and a 50-50 partnership they really mean they desire control. Weak males -- and I don't care what the ethnicity or phenotype -- are largely to blame. Curses to them from dark, chthonic places!
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Post by eufrenio on Jun 29, 2004 15:44:40 GMT -5
Eufrenio, your words are those that pour forth from my own soul! You could not have said that better. I agree ad infinitum. I would also add that when women say they want equal rights and a 50-50 partnership they really mean they desire control. Weak males -- and I don't care what the ethnicity or phenotype -- are largely to blame. Curses to them from dark, chthonic places! I don´t really know who´s to blame! Society is changing so fast, most men don´t probably realize they´re being ripped off and denied their rights.
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Katea
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Post by Katea on Jun 29, 2004 17:02:24 GMT -5
Society is changing so fast, most men don´t probably realize they´re being ripped off and denied their rights. er right. Us women are taking over the world..... & you're being "ripped off and denied your rights" how?? which "rights" are you talking about?? ;D Have you any idea how hilarious that sounds
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