Why Don't Disaffected Minorities Leave?

[Dodona Underground]

I'm taking a short break from retirement to ask a question for which I've never heard an adequate answer.

When a majority makes racial, religious and ethnic minorities miserable for a long time, why don't those minorities who aren't in bondage ALWAYS emigrate to a location where they can have a better, more just life for themselves and their families? And, in particular, why don't they adopt or create a new home where they can be in the majority?

What else could be done when faced with a system that can't be reformed? What knowledge am I missing on this subject?

I would especially appreciate hearing from anyone anywhere who is part of a racial, ethnic or religious minority.

[dukeofpain]

ghostofrecluse said:

I'm taking a short break from retirement to ask a question for which I've never heard an adequate answer.

When a majority makes racial, religious and ethnic minorities miserable for a long time, why don't those minorities who aren't in bondage ALWAYS emigrate to a location where they can have a better, more just life for themselves and their families? And, in particular, why don't they adopt or create a new home where they can be in the majority?

What else could be done when faced with a system that can't be reformed? What knowledge am I missing on this subject?

I would especially appreciate hearing from anyone anywhere who is part of a racial, ethnic or religious minority.

It's because it doesn't exist.

[dukeofpain]

I am also part of a minority.... It's called the MAJORITY!

[murphee]

They often do leave. My Jewish ancestors left Eastern Europe and Germany, settling in the United States from 1850-1907. They wanted a better life and also to escape the pressures of being a hated minority. Some family members moved to Israel, probably a major reason was that they wanted to live somewhere where they are the majority.
It takes a lot of effort and energy obviously to pull up roots and move somewhere far away, and most people, even if they claim to be miserable because they feel they are part of an oppressed minority, won't move. Learning a new language and moving away from friends and family are usually undertaken by the more adventurous.

[Ewig Berter]

Do you think this answers your question!?
dodona.proboards35.com/index.cgi?board=physanth&action=display&thread=1129504243

[eufrenio]

So, Berter, your answer is that disaffected minorities remain in their host country because they eventually find a niche in which they´re confortable enough? Another reason why they stay is because no matter how disaffected, the material conditions they enjoy are better that in their country of origin. It may also be lack of character. They have it better where they are shunned so they are willing to put up with moral degradation, or even allow themselves to become a nuisance for their hosts.

[MC anunnaki]

In the West, few minorities are in such bad conditions that it's better to move someplace else. I'll go as far as saying that most problems are caused by immigrants themselves when they lack the will to integrate. It is my experience that natives in general don't have problems with minorities simply because they are minorities - they have problems with the actions of some minorities.

[Educate Me]

Actually, what usually happens , is that the disaffected minority tries to seceded from the state to get their own country, not to move to somewhere else.

But that happens only when the minority is focused around only one area like the basques, not when the minority is dispersed all over the country like blacks in the USA .

[eufrenio]

We don´t think of Basques as a "minority". It´s merely a regional identity, similar to being Andalusian or Castillian. When we Spaniards think of something vaguely equivalent to the notion of "minority", we think of the Gypsies.
What would the nomadic and parasitic Gypsies do without their hosts? Return to India as a low caste? LOl!

[Educate Me]

Eufrenio, werent gypsies expulsed from Barcelona right before the Olympics?

[Dodona Underground]

Berter, in what you posted I saw nothing about the nature of migration between niches. Do niche theorists address that? Also the niche theory seems best suited for thinking about specialized castes, but I'd also like to hear about minority groups that have quite a bit of social and economic mobility. And I would prefer that we avoid becoming so sociological that we avoid the moral questions.

murphee said:

It takes a lot of effort and energy obviously to pull up roots and move somewhere far away, and most people, even if they claim to be miserable because they feel they are part of an oppressed minority, won't move.

Would you consider this failure to move away from oppression to be a kind of moral failure?

foreigner said:

Most weak minorities are weak because of their unsuccessful social organisation. And when they are not even capable of planning the cultural activities obligatory for the cohesion of the community, why should they be capable of achieving a planned emigration to a "more suitable" host country?

You've introduced the idea of collective action. And you're right to do so if we're talking about establishing a new homeland from scratch (sort of a combination of emigration and a struggle for national independence). But I'd also like to know why free lance individuals from minority groups don't load up their families and find the cheapest fare to a place where they'll be treated better. How much planning and organization is required for that?

ienjoylurking said:

Actually, what usually happens , is that the disaffected minority tries to seceded from the state to get their own country, not to move to somewhere else.

But that happens only when the minority is focused around only one area like the basques, not when the minority is dispersed all over the country like blacks in the USA .

Thanks, EM, for making that distinction. When I say "leave," I mean emigration, not secession.

eufrenio said:

So, Berter, your answer is that disaffected minorities remain in their host country because they eventually find a niche in which they´re confortable enough? Another reason why they stay is because no matter how disaffected, the material conditions they enjoy are better that in their country of origin. It may also be lack of character. They have it better where they are shunned so they are willing to put up with moral degradation, or even allow themselves to become a nuisance for their hosts.

Ah ha. Selling out. Are disaffected minorities who won't leave sell-outs? Eufrenio, you're stirring the pot.

[murphee]

"Would you consider this failure to move away from oppression to be a kind of moral failure?"

No.

[eufrenio]

ienjoylurking said:

Eufrenio, werent gypsies expulsed from Barcelona right before the Olympics?

I don´t know.
I find it hard to believe they could have been expulsed altogether from such a large city as Barcelona. They were probably invited to leave certain areas and to avoid begging in the more touristic places.

[eufrenio]

Dodona Underground wrote:

Ah ha. Selling out. Are disaffected minorities who won't leave sell-outs? Eufrenio, you're stirring the pot.

Not sell-outs, though they also lack self-respect: I meant morally feeble individuals, well on their way to parasitism.Disaffection is just one step on the road to parasitism. Minorities often voice their discontent in the form of riots or other anti- social behaviour such as petty crime. Then they ask for state hand-outs and special treatment from authorities. Remember what happened in Paris last november with the North-Africans.

[Dodona Underground]

When I say selling out, I'm not talking about their betrayal of their group in a direct sense, I'm talking about them, as individuals and ultimately as a group, betraying their dignity and moral standards for a mess of pottage. And, yes, what's been happening in France fits what I'm talking about.

In the European press what seems to be the consensus among those who speak for the rioters about what they want? Is there a consensus?