gypsies living in Portugal

[8888]

After having read an article and following comments in a Portuguese newspaper about gypsies, online.expresso.clix.pt/1pagina/artigo.asp?id=24746637&wcomm=true#comentarios
I would like to ask:

1 - Can we [native Portuguese] consider gypsies living in Portugal, Portuguese citizens or foreigners that have never adapted?

2 - Where do they come from and when have they started to arrive?

[SwordandCompass]

8888,you should post here (http://www.network54.com/Forum/239323)
Join up and post.

[One Humanity]

They had been enslaved by Muslim conquerors in India once and some time later they gained asylum in medieval Europe.

[Vitor]

I believe the name gipsy come from lies they told when they arrived in europe...

they said:
We are christians from egipt (there were/are some chistians there)...
egiptians->Gypsies
A nice way to turn into welcomed guests...

We still use the "cigano" gpisy word to call someone liar...

[pconroy]

Gareth said:

They had been enslaved by Muslim conquerors in India once and some time later they gained asylum in medieval Europe.

I just finished a book on the Gypsies by Isabel Fonseca, called "Bury Me Standing - The Gypsies and Their Journey". In it she states that the Gypsies were slaves in Romania for 300 years.

Here is an Indian review of it:
www.indiastar.com/wallia2.htm

Which adds some more information.

[Anima Eternae]

BEAT THE GYPSIES!!!

[alex221166]

Sometime ago I wrote a piece which mentioned the Gypsies.

www.geocities.com/refuting_kemp/immigration.html

The Gypsies [source]

According to legend, the Gypsies originally came from a southern province of Hindustan (in modern-day Pakistan). When the Persian Shah asked king Shangul of Hindustan for skilled entertainers, the later selected 12.000 individuals from the Zott tribe. These individuals called themselves "Romas", a sanskrit word that means "man of the low caste of musician". Romanian records of 1385 mention the presence of a tribe called atsigani. During the 15th century, they wandered all over Europe, and some eventually reached Portugal. The Gypsies were never well regarded in Portugal, probably since their arrival. Even to this day, the word "cigano" [Gypsy] is considered an insult, and it is a synonym of "crook", "thief", "quack", etc. According to the historian A. H. de Oliveira Marques, they arrived in Portugal during the second half of the XV century, and according to his sources, they were nomads trained in all sorts of irregular or forbidden activities (theft, deceit, witchcraft, etc). Nowadays, few believe in witchcraft, but the rest of the reputation of the Gypsy community hasn't changed significantly.

In 1525, during the Courts of Torres Novas, we have the first recorded complaint against this people, but it is only in 1526 that a law was passed forbidding their entry in the realm. Unsurprisingly, the law had little effect, and there are records of Gypsies being sent to Angola in the late XVII century, despite the protests of the whites living there. In 1822, the Portuguese Constitution was accepted and according to it, all citizens had the same rights according to the law. They stopped being shipped to Angola against their will, but the Constitution did little to change the way they were seen by the native Portuguese.

The Gypsies always segregated themselves, and as a community, have always rejected all the attempts aimed to improve their integration. There is a disproportionate number of Gypsies involved in criminal activities, and since the rest of the community tends to protect its criminal members, they all end up being labelled as criminals by the Portuguese population. They are the only minority living in Portugal which faces real hostility.