A little known high civilization

[Minstrel]

Hello everyone! I'm Minstrel, resident know-it-all, history buff, and internet philosophiser at your service! I hope this is an enriching and fruitful experience to all!

I bet none of you have heard this city of antiquity in central-west africa. It is mentioned very little even on the internet, but was one of the most advanced civilizations in africa. I am refering to the ancient 15th-19th city of loango depicted here by a european spectator:



It was complete with a royal wine house, several palaces for the king and his wives, a well-planned city layed out with many gardens, they had highly developed trade industries. Carpenters, canoe makers, artisians, clothiers all peddeld their wares in a huge market. It also looks like they discovered the wheel! I see a sort of animal-driven carriage in the front of the depiction. They also were one of the few cultures at the time that had a sort of paper-money. It was made out of "palm-cloth" a cloth made out of a type of tree bark they used in transactions and clothing.

They were very skilled craftsmen

Ivory napkin rings


Model of river canoe

I had earlier heard about this civilization in an old book but did'nt really pay much attention to it. Now after researching various civilizations and stumbling upon it again it sparked my interest, I came to realise how advanced it actually was. It certainly defires convention of a "backward" africa before the europeans arrived. Such perceptions, unfortunately, have taken hold amongst the majority of the populace, when the perceptions ofcourse, are not neccessarily true at all.

It's unfortunate how history can just "fall through the cracks", it should be looked upon with the deepest of scrutiny to find truth.

[mike2]

Where exactly in Africa was Loango and what modern ethnic group is the most likely to be descended from them?

[Minstrel]

Mike said:

Where exactly in Africa was Loango and what modern ethnic group is the most likely to be descended from them?

The civilization was located on the coast in what is now the Congo. I believe their descendants are the "Vili" and "BaKongo"people. An utterly surprising level of advancement can be witnessed in the depiction.

Unfortunately, little of that magnificent little city and civilization remains. It was either 1) destroyed by the portuguese, or 2) collasped and swallowed up by the forest, thereby inhibiting further archeological visibility, or both. Also, they built out of wood, which not not a very durable material, is is subject to rot.

[mike2]

Kind of like Great Zimbabwe. It just sort of drifted out of existence with the passage of time.

[Igu]

It was not a high civilization. it's like calling modern bulgaria "A little known high civilization" just because they have cars and TV.

[Springa]

That's not really a fair comparisson, because nowadays every country (with a few exceptions) have cars, TV and modern goods in general (what varies is the n percentage of people who can afford those things, but that's another discussion), while most of the world didn't even live in cities back in the 15th century, specially in Africa.
But I agree that this particular civilization seems to be much less "high" and complex than any classic civilization.

Igu said:

It was not a high civilization. it's like calling modern bulgaria "A little known high civilization" just because they have cars and TV.

[mike2]

When it comes to black Africa, I'll take any civilizations I can get.

[Faelcind]

I have heard of Loango before its fascinating, one of many such lesser known civilizations from Africa that easily dispell the Africans can't create civilizations myth that racist trolls so dearly love.

[Minstrel]

It was not a high civilization. it's like calling modern bulgaria "A little known high civilization" just because they have cars and TV.

Hmmmm, I dont see the comparison? We are talking about the 1600's here, and a civilization in the middle of the boondocks with wheels, paper money, irrigation, metalworking and a high level of socio-economic complexity. Yes, for that time, it was a "high" civilization, just like Greece and rome were considered "high" for their time.

It is especially surprising to see it in the middle of nowhere like central africa.

while most of the world didn't even live in cities back in the 15th century, specially in Africa.
But I agree that this particular civilization seems to be much less "high" and complex than any classic civilization.

First it depends on what your definiton of "high" is and then further on how it stacks up to your definition subjectively speaking ofcourse. Nubia was roughly equal in sophistication to egypt in many ways, but little is mentioned of it. I think it has to do with the general lack of much information about pre-colonial tropical africa, archeologically speaking, it is perhaps the most neglected part of the world.

I would rate the civilization as high or moderately high (relatively speaking) just from observation. It looks like a sort of garden city with well-tended, maybe irrigated fields. I see a carriage (indicating wheeled transportation), I see a large palace area in the back, sophisticated architecture, city walls, central organisation and authority. It has a sense of law (prisoners being transpoted in the front). sophisticated artistry. All or most of the the trappings of greece or rome, just developed a little later in history.

[Minstrel]

Mike said:

When it comes to black Africa, I'll take any civilizations I can get.

Hmm that is a rather mean thing to say but I get your meaning. To tell you the truth, black africa was'nt neccessarily the picture you might paint in your minds eye. There were more or less 7 major black african civilizations, in varying complexity and stages of developement. they did not have the political or socio-economic cohesion that middle age europe had more or less. The ones that were close feuded and the ones that were on the fringes did'nt have the dynamism to create a "unite africa" scenario.

[alexandrian]

Minstrel said:

Nubia was roughly equal in sophistication to egypt in many ways, but little is mentioned of it. .

Only because it was a conquered province of Egypt for a very long time.

[mike2]

Minstrel said:

Hmm that is a rather mean thing to say but I get your meaning. To tell you the truth, black africa was'nt neccessarily the picture you might paint in your minds eye. There were more or less 7 major black african civilizations, in varying complexity and stages of developement. they did not have the political or socio-economic cohesion that middle age europe had more or less. The ones that were close feuded and the ones that were on the fringes did'nt have the dynamism to create a "unite africa" scenario.

I didn't intend to convey any kind of malicious message, just that I'm sad there are so few regional black African civilizations to talk about. Mali, Songhai, Nubia, Great Zimbabwe, the kingdom of the Kongo are the best of them. But can these be compared to those of Greece and China? It's the same deal with Native Americans. They had a good number of grand civilizations, too, but like the black African ones, they denigrated into thousands of tribes whereas the European and Asian ones have merely evolved into a couple of nationalities.

[Faelcind]

Alexandrian said:

Only because it was a conquered province of Egypt for a very long time.

Thats a completely unsupportable statement that comes of as nothing but nationalist tripe. Who is claiming credit for other peoples civilizations now. If your going to be nationalist at least try not be hypocrite.

[Faelcind]

There are some serious reasons why nation forming was harder in africa and the americans then in europe I recomend Jared Diamonds guns germs and steel as an well written if somewhat pompous introduction the dominant theory soceity devolopment in archeology, ecological materialism. I wrote an extensive post on the subject in this forum called the rise of
civilizations here
[ftp]http://dodona.proboards35.com/index.cgi?board=history&action=display&thread=1105923295[/ftp]

The real problem with allot of those civilizations though is not their lack of complexity its their illiteracy it much easier to be awed by the wonders of anciant greece cause we can read so much about it.

[nockwasright]

Hi Minstrel. How do we know about Loango? I mean, who found what about Loango?