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Post by Satyros on Dec 18, 2004 5:56:43 GMT -5
Today's Sicilians are a racial mixture of Sicilians, Greeks and Sikanians.
Before the Latins, in the Latio area lived Sicilians.
When they were forced to go south, they gave their name to the island of Sicely, where they were forced to escape to.
The island was named Sikania by the inhabitants of the many Greek colonies on it.
The Sikanians were the old inhabitants of the island. When the Latins kicked the Sicilians living in Latio, the Sicilians went to the island of Sicely. There they mixed with the many Greeks of the Greek colonies of the island and they pushed the Sikanians to the center of the island.
Thus todays Sicilians are a mixture of these three: Greeks, Sicilians, Sikanians.
And thus, Greeks should also take some credit for the famous Sicilian Mafia, lol!!
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Post by It-Alien on Dec 18, 2004 6:12:35 GMT -5
The Mafia started in Spain and was brought over to Sicily & Southern Italy when under Spanish domination.
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Post by Satyros on Dec 18, 2004 7:05:53 GMT -5
The Mafia started in Spain and was brought over to Sicily & Southern Italy when under Spanish domination. I dont believe you.
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Post by It-Alien on Dec 18, 2004 8:09:48 GMT -5
I don't care what you believe but it's part of Sicilian history. Even the other stuff you wrote is not exactly right ;D.
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Post by It-Alien on Dec 18, 2004 8:32:44 GMT -5
"<<l'azione violenta e distruttice della mafia>>, come conseguenza di quel comportamento. Insomma, si tratta di un volume che prende le mosse dalle origini spagnole di associazioni segrete di tipo violento (Toledo 1417) e, seguendo il loro trapianto nel Mezzogiorno d'Italia, previene ai giorni nostri, rimarcando la grande capacità di adeguamento o di adattamento dell'onorata società alle evoluzioni sociali, economiche, industriali, in una parola capitalistiche. Basti ricordare al proposito che dai primordi ad oggi aggiornando i dati Censis '85, si può calcolare che il fatturato del crimine in Italia è stimabile in 200.000 miliardi e che la metà spetterebbe a <<Cosa Nostra>>." digilander.libero.it/mafiologia/commenti.html
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Post by Satyros on Dec 18, 2004 8:41:05 GMT -5
Even the other stuff you wrote is not exactly right ;D. Hey, its not my fault that there are ignorant and illiterate persons reading my thread, like you. Read some comics if this is too musch for you. By the way, do you know what the initials M.A.F.I.A. mean, retard? What could they possibly have to do with anything Spanish?
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Post by It-Alien on Dec 18, 2004 8:47:51 GMT -5
Hey, its not my fault that there are ignorant and illiterate persons reading my thread, like you. Read some comics if this is too musch for you. By the way, do you know what the initials M.A.F.I.A. mean, retard? What could they possibly have to do with anything Spanish? I live in Sicily and you are one of the reason why this MB is going down the drain. Mafia is a word derived from the Tuscan dialect the original word was maffia.
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Post by It-Alien on Dec 18, 2004 8:52:13 GMT -5
Mafia/Maffia
Un rapido sguardo ad alcuni dialetti italiani, e si scopre che in Toscana, nel '400, l'infedele, il delinquente era un "malfusso"; in dialetto fiorentino "mafia, maffia", è povertà, miseria.
Other (some unprobable) theories of the origin of the word Mafia:
STORIA DI UNA PAROLA CHE ENTRERA' NELLA STORIA
Le origini della parola "mafia", dalla sua prima attestazione fino all'ingresso definitivo nel vocabolario italiano.
E' nella Palermo del 1658 che ci si imbatte in Caterina la Licatisa, "nomata ancor Maffia". Una fatucchiera, il cui nome compare in un elenco ufficiale di eretici riconciliati dall'Atto di Fede dell'Inquisizione Siciliana. Per la prima volta, dunque, il termine "mafia" esce allo scoperto, in forma di soprannome, a indicare la spavalderia, l'infedeltà di una strega. E, tuttavia, occorrerà attendere ancora un paio di secoli per ritrovarlo sulle pagine di un dizionario. Numerose ed assai dibattute sono le ipotesi etimologiche che ne accompagnano il cammino. L'origine araba è fra le più accreditate, nonostante la varietà delle spiegazioni che ad essa sono ricondotte: "mahias" significa sfacciato, prepotente; "ma afir" è la tribù islamica che dominò Palermo nel periodo saraceno; "maha" è una cava di pietra, una grotta (le "mafie", cave di tufo nella zona di Marsala e Trapani, diedero rifugio ai perseguitati e ai fuggiaschi fin dai tempi dei saraceni); "mu afah" è composto da mu (salvezza salute) e afah (proteggere, tutelare); "mahfil" sta per "adunanza", "ritrovo" e, infine, "marfud" è participio passato di "ricusare", "rifiutare".
UNA PAROLA PR TUTTE LE ATTITUDINI Mafia/Maffia
Un rapido sguardo ad alcuni dialetti italiani, e si scopre che in Toscana, nel '400, l'infedele, il delinquente era un "malfusso"; in dialetto fiorentino "mafia, maffia", è povertà, miseria. In piemontese, invece, il "mafiun" (o mafio, mafi) è un uomo piccolo di statura, ma anche meschino, incivile, taciturno. Il siciliano "mafiusu", "marfusu", se da una parte indica un individuo arrogante e prepotente, dall'altra può anche significare "uomo coraggioso"; "mafiusedda" è una bella donna e il venditore ambulante di frutta estoviglie gridava per strada: "Haju scupi d'a mafia! Haju chiddi mafiusi veru". Benchè la differente etimologia dei termini siciliano e piemontese sia ormai accertata, sembra plausibile una comune derivazione di quest'ultimo, insieme con il termine toscano, dall'arabo "marfud".
ACROSTICI IMPROBABILI Seguendo altre tracce si scoprono ipotesi sempre più azzardate. La mafia diventa sigla acrostica di un partito nazionale ai tempi dei vespri siciliani (Morte Ai Francesi Italia Anela) o di una setta segreta d'ispirazione addirittura mazziniana (Mazzini Autorizza Furti Incendi Avvelenamenti). Sul finire del secolo scorso un testo francese faceva risalire ai cavalieri dell'ordine dei Templari il culto maufais del dio Maufe: i mafiosi erano dunque sacerdoti del male. Eppoi, ancora, l'ipotesi della derivazione da un patronimico ci porterebbe sulle tracce di un tal Turiddu Maffia da Alcamo, mentre l'origine dal greco morphè spiegherebbe il significato legato ai termini "bellezza e forza". C'è poi una leggenda secondo la quale la causa che scatenò la rivolta dei Vespri nel 1282 fu lo stupro da parte di un soldato francese ai danni di una bella palermitana: l'urlo di dolore della madre "Ma fia, ma fia !" (mia figlia, mia figlia), secondo il mafioso italo americano Joe Bonanno, venne poi adottato dal movimento di resistenza ai francesi.
di Paola Ivaldi su Narcomafie di ottobre 1995
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Post by SwordandCompass on Dec 18, 2004 10:37:03 GMT -5
Beppe is right the "mafia" has its roots in Spain.
Brothers in Blood The rise of the Criminal Brotherhoods. By David Leon Chandler Who won a Pulitzer Prize expert on crime.
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Post by buddyrydell on Dec 18, 2004 19:15:25 GMT -5
It-alien is right about the Mafia being able to trace its roots back to Spain. If I'm not mistaken, it traces its origins back to Sicilians who vowed to protect Sicily and its people from foreign domination at the time because one colonial power after the next had always dominated Sicily. At the time, Spain was the country which occupied Sicily. Thus, the Mafia was initially a noble institution that served to protect the population from Spanish exploitation. But, like many organizations that obtain power, it became corrupt and evolved into the organization we all know today.
As for Sicilian origins, Satyros you are largely right but not entirely. The main origins are indeed Siculi, Sicani, and Greek, though there are also genetic contributions from Romans, Moors (Arabs/Berbers), Normans, Frenchmen, and Spaniards.
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Post by OdinofOssetia on Dec 20, 2004 15:21:39 GMT -5
Beppe is right the "mafia" has its roots in Spain. Brothers in Blood The rise of the Criminal Brotherhoods. By David Leon Chandler Who won a Pulitzer Prize expert on crime. No, not entirely. There are at least four major organized crime groups in southern Italy: 1) La Cosa Nostra (Mafia Siciliana) - Sicily. 2) Camorra - Naples area. 3) 'Ndrangheta - Calabria. 4) Sacra Corona Unita (SCU) - Apulia. As you can see, only one of them - Camorra - might have originated in Spain; therefore, claiming that "mafia originated in Spain" is not really true. In any case, that is surely not true for the Mafia Siciliana, or the 'real Mafia' as one might put it.
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Post by OdinofOssetia on Dec 20, 2004 15:31:39 GMT -5
It-alien is right about the Mafia being able to trace its roots back to Spain. If I'm not mistaken, it traces its origins back to Sicilians who vowed to protect Sicily and its people from foreign domination at the time because one colonial power after the next had always dominated Sicily. At the time, Spain was the country which occupied Sicily. Thus, the Mafia was initially a noble institution that served to protect the population from Spanish exploitation. But, like many organizations that obtain power, it became corrupt and evolved into the organization we all know today. As for Sicilian origins, Satyros you are largely right but not entirely. The main origins are indeed Siculi, Sicani, and Greek, though there are also genetic contributions from Romans, Moors (Arabs/Berbers), Normans, Frenchmen, and Spaniards. ... and Pheonicians/Carthaginians, Byzantines, Slavs, Aragonese/Catalans, and Spaniards. And of course the Jews! Here on the Sicilian Slavs: michalw.narod.ru/SlavicSpain.html
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Post by It-Alien on Dec 20, 2004 16:11:46 GMT -5
No, not entirely. There are at least four major organized crime groups in southern Italy: 1) La Cosa Nostra (Mafia Siciliana) - Sicily. 2) Camorra - Naples area. 3) 'Ndrangheta - Calabria. 4) Sacra Corona Unita (SCU) - Apulia. As you can see, only one of them - Camorra - might have originated in Spain; therefore, claiming that "mafia originated in Spain" is not really true. In any case, that is surely not true for the Mafia Siciliana, or the 'real Mafia' as one might put it. Real mafia as you call is linked to Spain (Toledo) now you trying tell that a Sicilian University history lecturer does not what he is talking about ? I got all this information talking to a historial lecturer about the origins of the Sicilian Mafia and i found an Italian article about it on the internet: "<<l'azione violenta e distruttice della mafia>>, come conseguenza di quel comportamento. Insomma, si tratta di un volume che prende le mosse dalle origini spagnole di associazioni segrete di tipo violento (Toledo 1417) e, seguendo il loro trapianto nel Mezzogiorno d'Italia" All the Mafia groups you mentioned are almost the same just with different names and were transplanted by the Spanish. buddyrydell's explanation is not wrong.
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Post by OdinofOssetia on Dec 20, 2004 17:26:13 GMT -5
Real mafia as you call is linked to Spain (Toledo) now you trying tell that a Sicilian University history lecturer does not what he is talking about ? I got all this information talking to a historial lecturer about the origins of the Sicilian Mafia and i found an Italian article about it on the internet: "<<l'azione violenta e distruttice della mafia>>, come conseguenza di quel comportamento. Insomma, si tratta di un volume che prende le mosse dalle origini spagnole di associazioni segrete di tipo violento (Toledo 1417) e, seguendo il loro trapianto nel Mezzogiorno d'Italia" All the Mafia groups you mentioned are almost the same just with different names and were transplanted by the Spanish. buddyrydell's explanation is not wrong. Apparently he is BS-insg too much his university professor credentials. It was not even Toledo, but in Seville, where the Garduna had its seat. As for the rest of them, to see how wrong you are by labeling them as the "same thing, same origin, but different only in name" by checking this site: http://da_wizeguy.tripod.com/omerta/index.html
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Post by It-Alien on Dec 20, 2004 19:46:04 GMT -5
The Garduna - written records were kept of it's crimes, clients and fees from 1520 but is believed to have existed in the early fifteenth century. Its headquarters was in Seville, Spain but they had branches in Toledo, Barcelona and Cordova and other smaller organizations in smaller towns. The Garduna ledger books that were seized in 1822, brought about the conviction of the grand master and sixteen of his chief captains - they were hanged in Seville 1822. It is believed, that after this date the remainder of the Garduna emigrated to the New World. www.angelfire.com/ok/hoddies/Page2.html Look i know i'm right because more than one historian (even on Italian national TV) has mentioned that organized crime in Southern Italy was influenced by the Spanish and you show me records dating from 1520 onwards when i know that in 1417 in Toledo these kind of organizations existed. All i'm saying is that organized crime started in Spain maybe you are confused because in Italy Mafia is also used to describe all organized crime. The Sicilian Mafia did not start out as a criminal organization. I am searching for information in English or Italian but in the mean time i found an article in Danish & i wonder if anyone could translate it for me. Den spanske garduña<br> Det er ikke et let spørgsmål at besvare, eller rettere, der findes ikke ét svar, fordi det ikke går an bare at beskrive udvikling. Man må også vurdere og sandsynliggøre de betingelser, som muliggør at netop denne udvikling finder sted. Et af forsøgene på at beskrive mafiaens tilblivelsesproces tager et langt spring tilbage i tiden til Spanien i det 15. århundrede, hvor der i 1417 i Toledo dannedes et hemmeligt broderskab, kaldet garduña (=husmåren eller blot måren), en loge med et nedskrevet sæt af vedtægter. Garduñaen var knyttet tæt til det spanske monarki. Strukturen var strengt hierarkisk. I spidsen for logen stod stormesteren, som tilhørte hoffet, mens lokalafdelingerne lededes af mesterne. Opgaverne drøftedes på de lokale møder, og mesteren var suveræn; hans ordrer skulle udføres og adlydes. Garduñaen sikrede desuden gensidig hjælp til medlemmerne. Disciplinen var hård, ikke mindst straffen mod de ikke-pligtopfyldende. Broderskabets aktiviteter var indrettet på at skaffe underhold og støtte til medlemmer af logen; man udførte også opgaver for ikke-medlemmer, som ikke selv ønskede at gøre det beskidte arbejde og reelt var selskabet et redskab for den spanske overklasse. Logen opløstes omkring 1810-1814 efter 400 års virksomhed i forbindelse med Napoleonkrigene og besættelsen af Spanien. www.forlagetlee.dk/emner/mafiaen/hisintro.htmAs you can see it mentions Toledo and the date 1417
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