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Post by Tautalos on Feb 27, 2004 9:39:55 GMT -5
As far as I saw, until now, that is just political propaganda - a specially disgusting type of propaganda, since it is based in personal and intimate aspects with the intention of directing an ad hominem attack, just to discredit a given ideology.
I.e., it's a classic demonstration of the worst sort of political acts, issued by the worst scum.
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Post by eufrenio on Feb 27, 2004 15:59:16 GMT -5
Do you dispute the evidence in THe Pink Swastika and in Lothar Machtan´s "Hitler's Secret: the Double Life of a Dictator"? . I.e., it's a classic demonstration of the worst sort of political acts, issued by the worst scum.
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Post by Tautalos on Mar 1, 2004 10:19:09 GMT -5
Do present those alleged «evidences».<br> Do you dispute the evidence in THe Pink Swastika and in Lothar Machtan´s "Hitler's Secret: the Double Life of a Dictator"?
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Post by eufrenio on Mar 1, 2004 15:53:46 GMT -5
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Post by Josh on Mar 2, 2004 0:19:07 GMT -5
The link doesn't work.
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Post by eufrenio on Mar 2, 2004 16:59:29 GMT -5
Was Adolf Hitler a Homosexual? Until the publication of Professor Lothar Machtan’s powerful biography The Hidden Hitler in 2001, we were much less confident in stating that Hitler was indeed a homosexual. Machtan, a history professor in Bremen, Germany, set out to prove Hitler’s homosexuality and did so most convincingly, drawing upon hundreds of period documents. We shall consider the evidence at length. One point upon which we remain unconvinced was whether Hitler was exclusively homosexual or whether he had relations with women. Machtan writes, small number of contemporaries...were pretty explicit on the subject of Hitler’s sex life. These include August Kubizek, Kurt Ludecke, Ernst Hanfstaengl, Rudolf Diels, Erich Ebermayer, Eugen Dollman, Christa Schroder and Hans Severus Ziegler. They are all unanimous in stating, quite positively, that Hitler did not have sex with women. Some of them expressly say that Hitler was homosexual; others convey the same thing obliquely (Machtan:23)
There are at least four women, however, including his own niece, Gely, with whom Hitler is reported to have had sexual relationships. These relationships were not normal, if in fact they occurred. Both Waite and Langer write that Hitler was a coprophile (a person who is sexually aroused by human excrement) and suggest that his sexual encounters with women included expressions of this perversion as well as other extremely degrading forms of masochism. It is interesting to note that all of these women attempted suicide after allegedly becoming sexually involved with Hitler. Two succeeded (Langer:175f). Hitler contemporary Otto Strasser writes of an encounter he had with Hitler’s niece Gely:
152 The Founding and Early Years of the Nazi Party
Next day Gely came to see me. She was red eyed, her round little face was wan, and she had the terrified look of a hunted beast. “He locked me up,” she sobbed. “He locks me up every time I say no!” She did not need much questioning. With anger, horror and disgust she told me of the strange propositions with which her uncle pestered her. I knew all about Hitler’s abnormality. Like all the others in the know, I had heard all about the eccentric practices to which Fraulein Hoffmann was alleged to have lent herself, but I had genuinely believed that the photographer’s daughter was a little hysteric who told lies for the sheer fun of it. But Gely, who was completely ignorant of this other affair of her uncle’s, confirmed point by point a story scarcely credible to a healthy-minded man (Strasser, 1940:72).
THE PINK SWASTIKA 153
Langer suggests that Hitler may very well have engaged in homosexual behavior, saying “persons suffering from his perversion sometimes do indulge in homosexual practices in the hope that they might find some sexual gratification. Even this perversion would be more acceptable to them than the one with which they are afflicted.” (Langer:179). He reports, for example on the testimony of Hermann Rauschning, a trusted Hitler confidante whom Hitler appointed President of the Danzig Senate in 1932 (Wistrich:240, Snyder:282). He later fell out of favor and fled Germany in 1936 (ibid.). Langer writes,
Rauschning reports that he has met two boys who claimed that they were Hitler’s homosexual partners, but their testimony can hardly be taken at face value. More condemning would be the remarks dropped by [Albert] Foerster, the Danzig gauleiter, in conversation with Rauschning. Even here, however, the remarks deal only with Hitler’s impotence as far as heterosexual relationships go without actually implying that he indulges in homosexuality. It is probably true that Hitler calls Foerster “Bubi,” which is a common nickname employed by homosexuals in addressing their partners. This alone is not adequate proof that he has actually indulged in homosexual practices with Foerster, who is known to be a homosexual (Langer:178). [Significantly, Foerster was Julius Streicher’s protégé.]
154 The Founding and Early Years of the Nazi Party
Waite concurs:
There is insufficient evidence to warrant the conclusion that Hitler was an overt homosexual. But it seems clear that he had latent homosexual tendencies...It is true that Hitler was closely associated with Ernst Roehm and Rudolf Hess, two homosexuals who were among the very few people with whom he used the familiar du [“thou”]. But one cannot conclude that he therefore shared his friends’ sexual tastes. Still, during the months he was with Hess in Landsberg, their relationship must have become very close. When Hitler left the prison he fretted about his friend who languished there, and spoke of him tenderly, using Austrian diminutives: “Ach mein Rudy, mein Hesserl, isn’t it appalling to think that he’s still there.” One of Hitler’s valets, Schneider, made no explicit statement about the relationship, but he did find it strange that whenever Hitler got a present he liked or drew an architectural sketch that particularly pleased him, he would run to Hess — who was known in homosexual circles as “Fraulein Anna” — as a little boy would run to his mother to show his prize to her...Finally there is the nonconclusive but interesting fact that one of Hitler’s prized possessions was a handwritten love letter which King Ludwig II had written to a manservant (Waite, 1977:283f). [Hess was known by other names in the German “gay” subculture. In recent years, long sealed Soviet archives have been opened to the West. In Deadly Illusions, authors John Costello and Oleg Tsarev report of seeing the “so-called ‘Black Bertha’ file, named from Hess’s reported nickname in Berlin and Munich” (Costello and Tsarev:xix).]
THE PINK SWASTIKA 155
Other writers offer similar assessments. According to Wilfried Daim, Frau Elsa Schmidt-Falk of the Nazi Genealogy Office of Munich observed that Hitler was so enraptured by the ‘maennerbuendleische’ (the young male students) on parade, that on this fact alone she concluded that Hitler was at least unconsciously homosexual (Daim:41). Desmond Seward, in Napoleon and Hitler, quotes Italian dictator, Benito Mussolini, who referred to Hitler as “that horrible sexual degenerate” (Seward:148). He also reports that “the files of the Viennese police list him [Hitler] as a homosexual” (Seward:299). Writer Charlotte Wolff, M.D. quotes Magnus Hirschfeld about Hitler in her book Magnus Hirschfeld. (Hirschfeld, you will remember, was Director of the Sex Research Institute of Berlin which was destroyed by Hitler in 1934.
156 The Founding and Early Years of the Nazi Party
About three years before the Nazis came to power we had a patient at the Institute who had a liaison with Roehm. We were on good terms with him, and he told us a good deal of what happened in his circle...He also referred to Adolf Hitler in the oddest possible manner. ‘Afi is the most perverted of us all. He is very much like a soft woman, but now he makes great propaganda in the heroic morale’” (Wolff:438).
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Post by eufrenio on Mar 2, 2004 17:00:33 GMT -5
Adolf, the Boy Prostitute
In Germany’s National Vice, Samuel Igra wrote that as a young man Hitler “had been a male prostitute in Vienna and Munich” (Igra:67). Lending credence to this is the fact that for quite a long time Hitler “chose to live in a Vienna flophouse known to be inhabited by many homosexuals” (Langer:192). That “flophouse” was the Meldemannstrasse Hostel. Hitler’s long-time “gay” friend Ernst Hanfstaengl identified this residence as “a place where elderly men went in search of young men for homosexual pleasures” (Machtan:56). “It was an open secret at the beginning of the 20th century,” adds Machtan, “that municipal hostels for homeless males were hubs of homosexual activity...[where many young men] kept themselves afloat by engaging in prostitution. Hitler spent over three years in this environment” (Machtan:51). This would help to explain Hitler’s close relationships to his purportedly homosexual patrons Dietrich Eckart and Karl Haushofer. Rector writes that, as a young man, Hitler was often called “Der Schoen Adolf” (“the handsome Adolf”) and that later his looks “were also to some extent helpful in gaining big-money support from Ernst Roehm’s circle of wealthy gay friends” (Rector:52). But Hitler was apparently not involved with homosexuality solely to survive financially. Even in his pre-Nazi years, most of Hitler’s reputed homosexual encounters were consensual meetings in which no money changed hands. Machtan suggests that each of Hitler’s longer-term relationships in his youth -- with Reinhold Hanisch, August Kubizek, Rudolf Hausler and Ernst Hanfstaengl -- were homosexual “love affairs.” There are numerous other incidents (“one night stands”) in which Hitler was purported to have been the solicitor and not the solicited one. Eugen Dollman, former member of Himmler’s staff and one-time Hitler interpreter, cited testimonies from the files of the Munich vice squad in which a series of young men identified Hitler as the man who had “picked them up” on the streets for homosexual relations (Machtan:135ff). Dollman himself was also homosexual (ibid.). Additional allegations addressed homosexual conduct by Hitler during the first World War. The so-called “Mend Protocol,” a document prepared by German military intelligence under Admiral Canaris, contains the testimony of Hans Mend. Considered highly credible, Mend had this to say about Hitler:
THE PINK SWASTIKA 157
Meanwhile, we had gotten to know Hitler better. We noticed that he never looked at a woman. We suspected him of homosexuality right away, because he was known to be abnormal in any case. He was extremely eccentric and displayed womanish characteristics which tended in that direction....In 1915 we were billeted in the Le Febre brewery at Fournes. We slept in the hay. Hitler was bedded down at night with “Schmidl,” his male whore. We heard a rustling in the hay. Then someone switched on his electric flashlight and growled, “Take a look at those two nancy boys.” I myself took no further interest in the matter (Ibid:68)
158 The Founding and Early Years of the Nazi Party
Hitler and “Schmidl” (Ernst Schmidt) were, in Schmidt’s words, “always together” during their war years. They remained very close friends and were occasional housemates for over thirty years (ibid.:89ff). A year or so after the incident described by Mend, Hitler supposedly “posed nude for a homosexual officer named Lammers -- a Berlin artist in civilian life -- and subsequently went to bed with him” (ibid.:100). This may be the incident to which Rauschning referred when he later told U.S. Investigators “that Lance Corporal Hitler and an officer had been charged with engaging in sexual relations” (ibid.). The homosexual connection certainly helps to explain how Hitler became involved with the nationalists generally, and Ernst Roehm specifically, after the war. It is likely that Roehm’s homosexual inclinations were the reason that Colonel Ritter von Epp, the Freikorps commander, chose Roehm as his adjutant. “There are many indications that the relationship between Roehm and Epp was homoerotic,” writes Machtan,“and Hitler once let slip in later years that Roehm’s homosexuality first became known around 1920” (ibid.:106f). Roehm, in turn, brought Hitler into the homoerotic Freikorps brotherhood.
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Post by eufrenio on Mar 2, 2004 17:02:04 GMT -5
The Bayreuth Connection
We have mentioned above that Hitler allegedly identified his favorite composer, Richard Wagner, as a pederast. We are not certain that this is true. What is certain is that Wagner’s Bayreuth was “a notorious international rendezvous for prominent homosexuals” whose absorption with Wagner achieved “a cultlike quality” (ibid.:39). One factor in this attraction may have been that Wagner’s sons Richard and Siegfried were homosexuals. Richard later committed suicide (ibid.:254). Siegfried, pressured to have an heir, married a woman much younger than himself and had several children but surreptiously continued his homosexual affairs (Wagner:p.197). Hitler was very close to the Wagner family and spent a great deal of time in Bayreuth. He made numerous private visits there between 1925 and 1933, often with male homosexual companions (ibid.:253ff). One common companion was Julius Schreck, whose photograph hung beside that of Hitler’s beloved mother in his (Hitler’s) private quarters (ibid.:174f). Machtan cites one incident, however, in which he and Schreck failed to keep an appointment to vacation with their Bayreuth hosts. Instead, Schreck and Hitler turned aside at the Bad Berneck health resort, some 20 miles away, where they spent Christmas alone -- the only guests at the inn (ibid.:174). Hitler may have had yet darker motives for visiting the Wagner home. Only recently revealed is the accusation by Wagner family members “that Hitler sexually abused the young Wieland [Wagner’s grandson, now past 75] during the ‘20s.” These allegations came to light in a Time magazine interview with American author and former diplomat to Germany, Frederic Spotts, whose research for the book Bayreuth (about the Wagnerian opera festival of the same name) included interviews with the Wagner family (Time, August 15, 1994:56). “Spotts says that his original source was one of Wieland’s own children...Now a respected academic, Spotts says it was while he was researching “Bayreuth” that he interviewed his source -- who, he insists, is totally reliable and has no reason to lie. Spotts writes:
160 The Founding and Early Years of the Nazi Party
This family member told me Hitler sexually abused Wieland in the 1920s when the boy was a preadolescent’...Hitler, who idolized Richard Wagner's supernationalistic operas (as well as his anti-Semitism), had become a close friend of Wieland's mother's. Winifred Wagner gave him the run of the child’s nursery. Far from being revolted by what allegedly happened to him, Wieland avidly collaborated with his right-wing family during World War II (Penthouse, undated:32).
THE PINK SWASTIKA 161
Weiland later became Hitler’s protégé (Wagner:228) and was exempted from military service by Hitler’s personal intervention (ibid.:105). The weight of the evidence indicates that Hitler was deeply involved in a series of short and long-term homosexual relationships. Even more certain is that he knowingly and deliberately surrounded himself with practicing homosexuals from the time he was a teenager. His later public pronouncements against homosexuality were designed to hide the life-long intimacy -- sexual and/or homoerotic -- which he maintained with the various men he knew and accepted as homosexuals. Finally, in our look at Adolf Hitler, the man, we turn to Samuel Igra, a Jew who fled Germany in 1939 after twenty years of observing Hitler and the Nazis:
For the purposes of the present investigations Hitler is important for what he has represented...when he embarked the German people on the policy that brought about the world catastrophe. He was the central figure around which a number of men grouped themselves, from the 1920’s onwards, in a movement to gain supreme control of the German people. As the movement developed they were aided and abetted and supported financially as well as politically by the industrial capitalists of the Rhineland; but the initiative did not come from the latter. It came from Hitler as the condottiere [leader] of a band of evil men who were united together by a common vice [homosexuality] (Igra:26).
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WB
Full Member
Posts: 140
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Post by WB on Mar 6, 2004 18:15:29 GMT -5
Jewish lies, Jewish lies! ;D
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WB
Full Member
Posts: 140
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Post by WB on Mar 6, 2004 18:16:52 GMT -5
In my honest opinion, this is just a silly controversy. Seriously think to yourself, can you imagine him being gay? And remember this is the 40's.
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Post by Melnorme on Mar 6, 2004 18:56:31 GMT -5
Jewish lies, Jewish lies! ;D There are far worse things to be said about Hitler, you know.
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Post by eufrenio on Mar 6, 2004 19:22:43 GMT -5
In my honest opinion, this is just a silly controversy. Seriously think to yourself, can you imagine him being gay? And remember this is the 40's. I do not believe there were fewer homosexuals back then. They were as active as today, only "quieter". And they kept heterosexual fronts (as did Hitler with Eva Braun): only Roehm was openly "gay" and proud. Seriously, Hitler always struck me as a sexual deviant, and nazism as a butch homosexual ideology. The whole kitsch paraphernalia and aesthetics (just think of Nueremberg), the sado-masochistic world view of masters (aryans, the Volk) and servants (non-aryans) and corresponding exaltation of the military (a bunch of of jolly ("gay"?) comrades) over civilian life (wife and kids), their hatred of Jews (judaism abhorred homosexuality). Even nazism grew in a gay bar where Roehm and his clique would meet in Munich!
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Post by galvez on Mar 6, 2004 19:45:14 GMT -5
I do not believe there were fewer homosexuals back then. They were as active as today, only "quieter". And they kept heterosexual fronts (as did Hitler with Eva Braun): only Roehm was openly "gay" and proud. Seriously, Hitler always struck me as a sexual deviant, and nazism as a butch homosexual ideology. The whole kitsch paraphernalia and aesthetics (just think of Nueremberg), the sado-masochistic world view of masters (aryans, the Volk) and servants (non-aryans) and corresponding exaltation of the military (a bunch of of jolly ("gay"?) comrades) over civilian life (wife and kids), their hatred of Jews (judaism abhorred homosexuality). Even nazism grew in a gay bar where Roehm and his clique would meet in Munich! What's really telling is the increased tolerance toward homosexuals within certain racialist online forums. Gay writers are allowed to publish articles, and would-be racialists are defending homosexuals when they are attacked. There are even subtle attempts to attract them to the movement, to inflate numbers. Just as it is clear that the movement attracts racially-mixed individuals, it is clear that the movement is attracting homosexuals. In fact, the rate of homosexuality/bisexuality among neo-Nazis may be higher than that of the general population. The evidence has been posted on another thread.
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Post by eufrenio on Mar 7, 2004 5:59:33 GMT -5
Tolerance seems to be the word, since Alex Linder at VNN doesn´t seem to like homosexuals. Butch homosexuals have a natural fondness for nazism. What's really telling is the increased tolerance toward homosexuals within certain racialist online forums. Gay writers are allowed to publish articles, and would-be racialists are defending homosexuals when they are attacked. There are even subtle attempts to attract them to the movement, to inflate numbers. Just as it is clear that the movement attracts racially-mixed individuals, it is clear that the movement is attracting homosexuals. In fact, the rate of homosexuality/bisexuality among neo-Nazis may be higher than that of the general population. The evidence has been posted on another thread.
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Sandwich
Full Member
La pens?e d'un homme est avant tout sa nostalgie
Posts: 208
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Post by Sandwich on Mar 11, 2004 8:33:56 GMT -5
I dont know how many of you know the famous old WWII English song:
Hitler - has only got one ball The other - is hanging on the wall But poor old Goebells has no balls at all.
Yes definitely a closet gay - the uniforms, etc. And pre war Germany was rife with it.
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