skord
Full Member
Posts: 164
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Post by skord on Mar 22, 2004 21:42:01 GMT -5
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Aybek
New Member
Posts: 18
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Post by Aybek on Mar 23, 2004 4:07:40 GMT -5
Bulgars were also a Turkic tribe. The first Bulgar king who has accepted Christianity was carrying a "Kagan" title. Later they are mixed with other Christians and assimilated into growing number of Slavs. Pechenegs and Kipchaks (Kumans) were also two important Turkish tribe settled in the Balkans around 9th century. They even participated to the first crusades against Turkish armies of Muslims. Later there are also other Turkish tribes called Uzes or Uzis by the Byzantines. They were most probably Oghuzs. There are still Christian Turks who live in the area especially in Moldova. They are Gagauzs which mean Gok Oghuz (Sky or Blue Oghuz). I met one Gagauz guy in Turkey who were living here since 1 year. His Turkish was so perfect that I could not sperate him from a native Turkish speaker . Due to the aim of this forum I think I have to post a few picture of Gagauzs.  Gagauz wedding  Remembering their ancestors  Gagauz folk dance  Gagauz folk dance team  An old photo of a Gagauz family All photos are from: www.gagauz.com/gaguz_foto.php |
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Post by Graeme on Mar 23, 2004 7:42:27 GMT -5
I find this thread very interesting. I have not been that interested in the Balkans before either genetically or historically, but I always accepted that the Albanians were the descendents of the Illyrians and that the slav speaking groups, mainly Croats and Serbs, are the descendents of slavic immigrants from the north. Subjectively every South Slav I knew, all Croats, looked similar to many Russians in phenotype. Since being in this forum I have been exposed to the likes of Vesna, the Croat tennis player and various politicians from Serbia who have phenotypes nothing like Russians. So, the immigration hypothesis is a little wobbly. The Dinaric phenotype definitely has a Med component. Look, I am still to be swayed to believe that the South Slavs are native to the Balkans and not the descendents of immigrants from Russia.
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skord
Full Member
Posts: 164
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Post by skord on Mar 23, 2004 23:14:31 GMT -5
Look, I am still to be swayed to believe that the South Slavs are native to the Balkans and not the descendents of immigrants from Russia. There were two waves of migrations.First from present day Ukraine and second from present day Czech Rep. Thee are many toponyms in Czech Rep. with the word "Serb" (Serbska Kamenice etc..) I asked a Czech friend how old these towns were and he told me that they were most likely founded in either the 6th or 7th centuries.Maybe the Magyars pushed some Slavs southwards,others were assimilated by them. |
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Post by labi on Mar 25, 2004 15:27:53 GMT -5
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Post by Artemidoros on Mar 27, 2004 16:35:41 GMT -5
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Post by Artemisia on Mar 27, 2004 18:07:27 GMT -5
Labi, those Kosovars look much like Afghans. No one ever said the Greeks do not look European. If the Greeks don't look European, then the Italians don't look European either. Many Afghans might have lighter hair and eyes than Mediterraneans, but that does not make them European. I must remind you that some gypsies also look like your Kosovars.
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Post by labi on Mar 27, 2004 18:40:15 GMT -5
artemisia you clearly have issues with kosovars. but im 100% sure those guys look more european than greeks. and im anothern 100% sure they have nothing to do with afghanis. they are much taller, very fine chin and bone structure and well built. many of them in fact look like bosnians and montenegrins. oh well guess bosnians are afghanis also.  ============== artidomoros i dont get that genetic study. it shows percentages but it doesnt add up to 100%. what type of gene does the missing % have? it looks more like a incomplete study. plus only 19 albies were tested.  |
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Post by Artemidoros on Mar 27, 2004 19:32:07 GMT -5
============== artidomoros i dont get that genetic study. it shows percentages but it doesnt add up to 100%. what type of gene does the missing % have? it looks more like a incomplete study. plus only 19 albies were tested. The people of the Balkans have a wide range of Y-chromosomes. Every male can have only one of those and it represents an ancient unbroken line of paternal descent. In this mixture of paternal lines the mutation E-M78a is strongly represented, more so than anywhere else in Europe. It shows that this particular mutation appeared in the Balkans and if someone in the rest of Europe has it, then he has Balkan ancestry which might be recent or go back thousands of years. The Albanian sample is small but with almost 1/3 of those tested having that mutation, there is no doubt that the Albanians are "indigenous" to the Balkans. The Bulgarians show it strongly too, on a par with the Romanians, while other Slavic people like the Russians and the Poles do not. So the Bulgarians so clearly that they are genetically close to the other Balkan peoples and Slavic and Turkic migrations and conquests have not managed to alter that. |
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Post by labi on Mar 27, 2004 19:39:15 GMT -5
so it studies paternal side?
more studies/samples are needed though plus all ex-yugo people need to be included for the study to make sense. there must be paterns from country to country increase or decrease on a particular gene. i hate studies that dont follw this. they just test random countries.
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