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Post by Drooperdoo on Dec 2, 2005 12:46:54 GMT -5
I'm unaware of Paletinians "selling" their land to the Zionists in large numbers. From my little understanding of the situation, there was actual land-sale to the early Zionists in the 1910s and 1920s [before the creation of the state of Israel]. The Palestinians generally lived with them in peace--until the Zionists got impatient and started attacking farmers with tanks and state-of-the-art European weapons. The poor farmers were only armed with their land-deeds and farming tools. No match for the Zionist armies. (This was the time when the Zionists were also carrying out terrorist attacks on the British, blowing up the King David hotel and stuff like that.) So if the Brits were unprepared for the aggression, imagine the Palestinian farmers!
As for "winning" land in a war, that kind of sounds like you believe that Hitler had a "right" to Poland. After all, he "won" it in a war.
If Hitler's annexation of land in war is illegitimate, then why would you ask us to accept Israel's annexations after its 1948 creation?
I'll never understand the double-standard.
P.S.--In Israel's wars, its enemies were Jordan and Egypt. The Palestinian state never attacked Israel. Yet Israel used the war as a pretext to gobble up a country that didn't attack it. To be fair to Israel, Israel wasn't the only nation eager to annex the new Palestinian state. The Jordanians came in and raped the Palestinians, too. That's the great tragedy of their plight: Besieged on all sides by nations that they didn't attack. So Israel's "Egypt attacked us, so . . . um . . . they're 'Arab' and Palestinians are 'Arab," so . . .um . . . we get to attack and annex Palestine." That rationale seems disingenuous and Hitlerian.
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Post by ikilledjesus on Dec 2, 2005 12:55:06 GMT -5
I'm unaware of Paletinians "selling" their land to the invaders who came in with tanks and state-of-the-art European weapons. Bullshit 1948 War of Independence: IDF Arabs Tanks 1 w/o gun 40 Armored cars (w/ cannon) 2 200 Armored cars (w/o cannon) 120 300 Artillery 5 140 AA and AT guns 24 220 Warplanes 0 74 Scout planes 28 57 Navy (armed ships) 3 12 If Hitler's annexation of land in war is illegitimate, then why would you ask us to accept Israel's annexations after its 1948 creation? I'll never understand the double-standard. because arab forces started the war , which the US, the Soviet Union, and UN Secretary-General Trygve Lie called illegal
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Post by Drooperdoo on Dec 2, 2005 13:01:13 GMT -5
Good try: But Israel claimed that EGYPTIANS started the war. Egyptians are not Palestinians. Yet you hoped to deceive by conflating the two groups under the blanket term "Arab". The Arabs attacked. Bwa-ha-ha-ha
Good try.
That's like England being attacked by Denmark and retaliting against Sweden, with a propagandist trying to make it sound okay by saying "Er . . . uh . . . the Scandinavians' attacked."
Try again--and this time taylor your rhetoric to an educated audience. It might work better.
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Post by Drooperdoo on Dec 2, 2005 14:03:21 GMT -5
For the record: I want to state uncategorically, that I am in favor of the Jewish state. Sure millions of Eastern European Jews don't have Middle Eastern genes, but many millions more do. Same thing with North African and Asian Jews. Enough of them have a claim to have had ancestors from the region that I believe they do have a legitimate right to be there. (My only point was that Zionists need to be careful about pretending Palestinians don't exist, or the absurd notion that they don't belong there because their ancestors might have lived 3 miles away in Jordan. I mean, listen to that: You're not a Palestinian; you're a Jordanian! And that's 3 miles away." --Meanwhile the Jew's from 3,000 miles away, in Eastern Europe.) So they just need to be aware that, by their own rhetoric, their claims come off far worse than the Palestinians'.
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Post by dukeofpain on Dec 2, 2005 14:21:49 GMT -5
The German-polish September conflict was a lot more dynamic than that. Most of the events that transcribed, came because of the war, not out of some dastardly plan of polish domination. Hitler was well aware that that simply wasn't an option, without anything short of world war. Which obviously wasn't his intention. After all why would he fake the polish border provocation if he was looking far beyond Danzig?
In truth, even the Munich agreement was a lot more complicated than the British using Czech land to "appease" Hitler. As if they were doing an altruistic favor to the Germans at the behest of the Czechs, rather than making good on obvious wrongs that had happened after the first war. Including ceding German occupied areas to non-German, which in most cases, meant systematic discrimination. Even though there was a supposed ideal of cutting Europe along ethnic lines, except regarding "cordoning off" and domineering Germany. Which obviously wasn't possible with an armistice or anything short of a full scale invasion, seeing as the Germans aren't an indifferent people who take kindly to being shat on by foreigners.
If there was a majority Jewish community being oppressed by the Arabs in Palestine, which they sought to free themselves of, I would support them and even support foreign intervention. However, this wasn't the case in the least. It was aggressive premeditated imperialism. The Zionists own the land today, as much as the British own India.
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Post by dukeofpain on Dec 2, 2005 14:23:12 GMT -5
For the record: I want to state uncategorically, that I am in favor of the Jewish state. Sure millions of Eastern European Jews don't have Middle Eastern genes, but many millions more do. Same thing with North African and Asian Jews. Enough of them have a claim to have had ancestors from the region that I believe they do have a legitimate right to be there. (My only point was that Zionists need to be careful about pretending Palestinians don't exist, or the absurd notion that they don't belong there because their ancestors might have lived 3 miles away in Jordan. I mean, listen to that: You're not a Palestinian; you're a Jordanian! And that's 3 miles away." --Meanwhile the Jew's from 3,000 miles away, in Eastern Europe.) So they just need to be aware that, by their own rhetoric, their claims come off far worse than the Palestinians'. How about Constantinople? Should the EU invade?
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Post by Yankel on Dec 2, 2005 17:44:35 GMT -5
Actually, we call Palestinians 'Syrians', 'Egyptians' and 'Arabians', not Jordanians. As you already know, 'Palestinian' was synonymous with 'Jew' before the establishment of modern Israel. A map of ancient Asia Minor, showing Syria as the entire region (1849 map): "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria." - Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, a local Arab leader, to the Peel Commission, 1937 www.yahoodi.com/peace/palestine.html#whoare
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Post by yigal on Dec 2, 2005 17:52:10 GMT -5
drooperdoo, read a history book please, only 10% of Arabs owned land (the rest rented or served as something simmilar to sharecroppers) they where the effendis, who were decendants of ottomon loyalists and people who bought land from ottomons, the majority of effendis sold land to us,making the land ours and the non land owning palestinians squatters on our property,so we did what every govt including the american does with squatters,shooed them of our land, as for the small minority of land we took by force, and Golan, Manifest destiny bitch
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Post by Curious6 on Dec 2, 2005 18:07:05 GMT -5
Drooperdoo, the misinterpretation, convenient manipulation, distortion, outright ignorance, and downplaying of history's facts and figures staining the vast majority of your posts places you in a whole new category of 'extreme historical revisionism'.
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Post by Curious6 on Dec 2, 2005 18:10:17 GMT -5
I urge you to pick up a decent, reliable, mainstream history book, and stop viewing the whole issue through the veil of bigotry.
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Post by yigal on Dec 2, 2005 18:20:15 GMT -5
I urge you to pick up a decent, reliable, mainstream history book, and stop viewing the whole issue through the veil of bigotry. you want history? how about this only jews ever called themselves palestinians,10% of Arabs owned land 9% of those sold it, Arabs have 75% of palestine--80% if u include Westbank-85% if u include 3aza, end the Arab occupation of Eastern Palestine,Send the hashemites back to Hijaz
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Post by Curious6 on Dec 2, 2005 18:22:00 GMT -5
LOL, Yigal, my comment was dirigido a Drooperdoo.
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Post by Curious6 on Dec 2, 2005 18:23:40 GMT -5
And Arabs didn't own 10% of land, the only study (a 1946 one) giving reliable numbers of land ownership stated it at 6% (or a figure close to that, can't really remember)...
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Post by yigal on Dec 2, 2005 18:28:54 GMT -5
And Arabs didn't own 10% of land, the only study (a 1946 one) giving reliable numbers of land ownership stated it at 6% (or a figure close to that, can't really remember)... i didnt say arabs owned 10% of land, i said only 10% of arabs actually owned land or had any claim to owning land (ie where handed over ottomon land that was reposesed by british) the 10% land owning minority where called effendis
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Post by Curious6 on Dec 2, 2005 18:30:17 GMT -5
Good try: But Israel claimed that EGYPTIANS started the war. Egyptians are not Palestinians. Yet you hoped to deceive by conflating the two groups under the blanket term "Arab". The Arabs attacked. Bwa-ha-ha-ha Good try. That's like England being attacked by Denmark and retaliting against Sweden, with a propagandist trying to make it sound okay by saying "Er . . . uh . . . the Scandinavians' attacked." Try again--and this time taylor your rhetoric to an educated audience. It might work better. Was that supposed to be a clever comeback? This time you have really been lured into your own trap: a certain leader of the Palestinians (I'll leave you to guess), was not only of Egyptian heritage, but also born in El Cairo. HAHAHAHAHA (sorry, I just really felt like bursting out in a derogatory way like you do in two-thirds of yours posts)
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