Spain's Relations with its former colonies

[buddy]

How do most Latin Americans and Spaniards perceive one another? Are relationships between the countries in Latin America and Spain as warm as between say, America's or Australia's relationship with the U.K.?

I would especially like to hear from the Spaniards and Latin Americans if possible. Thanks!

[Educate Me]

It depends on the latin american country.

In those with high amerindian populations, and with developed pre columbain civilizations, like Peru and Bolivia, the conquest, columbus, and colonial period are generally seen as something completely negative, great evils, genocidal, in Mexico nowadays according to wiki Cortes is condemned as Damnatio memoriae.

In other countries like Argentina, people dont hold the colonial period in such a bad light, countries with low amerindian pre columbian populations where the spanish component of the population was more important, I guess, Cuba, Venezuela, Chile are the same but I am not sure.
Here there were no silver mines or sugar plantations, it was a poor backwards colony, but the lack of slavery in the river plate viceroyalty probably makes us see colonial spain as not something bad.

Although most Argentines of Spanish ancestry descend from the 1.300.000 spaniards who came here from the last decades of the XIX century till the 1950´s.
Not from Spaniards of the colonial period.

We still have hundreds of thousands of spaniards in Argentina, like my grandmother, people who came here in the first decades of the XX century, although that number will get smaller and smaller because those immigrants are obviously dying of age.

For most of the XX century, Buenos Aires was the city in the world with the highest number of Galicians (more than any city in Galicia), and it is still the second one.

In Argentina Spain is considered La Madre Patria, the "motherland", I think the same goes for the rest of latin american countries, with Spain and Portugal as "motherlands"

Diplomatic relations between Spain and all latin american countries are excellent, even if in those countries the colonial period and conquest are seen in a bad light, only problems with cuba because of fidel/communism.

I am an argentine with spanish citizenship, I have been to Spain and stayed there for like 5 or 6 months (combining all my trips).
I can say Ive been treated well, Generally everybody treated me well, but teenagers or people in their early 20´s who have only known and lived in a first world Spain are much more likely to call you a Sudaca than old people who remember when Spain was not very wealthy, and Argentina gaved them food when there was a blockade over Franco´s Spain, or may even have relatives or friends who immigrated here.
That may also be just because they are young and immature.

But still, that is a very low % of people, most people of any age treated me well.

Also, looking european helps, no one knew there I was a foreigner untill I opened my mouth because of my accent.
I think Argentines of spanish or italian acestry who looks like europeans blend well in spanish sociaty, they usually integrate.

It is probably different for argentines who look mestizo or amerindians, or ecuatorians who I believe are the most important immigrant group in Spain.


I think only Eufrenio can really answer this questions from the point of view of a spaniard.

[buddy]

Educate Me,

Thanks for the very detailed response. I suspected that countries with majority Amerindian-mestizo populations would probably view Spain in a more negative light than a nation such as Argentina, where most of the people are of Spanish or other European ancestry. I've also heard that in Mexico, Cortes is viewed as "el diablo," whereas Cuahtemoc is hailed as the first Mexican national hero.

I wasn't even aware that most Argentines of Spanish ancestry descend from Spaniards who came after the end of the colonial era. Thus, I suppose that it's no surprise that Argentina feels very akin to Spain.

Here in the U.S., despite the American Revolution and the War of 1812, Americans and Brits managed to reconcile their differences. The language, culture, and British ancestry of most Americans at the time helped, along with the fact that many people from Britain continued to emigrate to America throughout the 19th century, largely bringing the ideas of the Industrial Revolution with them. Therefore, the relationship between the U.S. and the UK only grew stronger despite two wars.

[eufrenio]

Buddy, you have to separate the official position, which for instance in Spain makes Latin Americans and Spaniards "brothers" while in Mexico we are devils, with the actual feelings of those governed.
From my side, I can only say that there´s been both a sense of mistrust (from the great betrayal that was Independence in the Americas starting under Napoleon´s invasion of Spain and culminating in the Cuban war in 1898) and a sense of relatedness, due to the common origins of the countries on both sides of the Atlantic. So there was already a sort of love/hate relationship from early on, which today with the inmigration of Central and South Americans is becoming more and more hostile. Latin americans are perceived as pushy, unloyal, ethnocentric, lacking manners, dirty, ugly, stupid, and criminal. They are mostly from Equador, Bolivia and Colombia. There are great numbers of Argentines as well, and they are far from being popular.

[Educate Me]

Eufrenio, any particular reason for Argentines being unpopular?

the usual things? (arrogant, jews, not really spaniards but more like italians, fake, prepotence..etc?)

[halcyon]

From my side, I can only say that there´s been both a sense of mistrust (from the great betrayal that was Independence in the Americas starting under Napoleon´s invasion of Spain and culminating in the Cuban war in 1898)

I'm sure that the Muslims/Moors/whatever expelled from Spain feel exactly the same way. No wonder that some Muslims to this day feel a sense of entitlement when it comes to Spain. I think the elite ceased to feel a strong affinity with spain and saw spain as irrelevant and unnecessarily getting in the way of fulfilling their own self-interests which prompted them to finally cut ties and go their own separate way.

which today with the inmigration of Central and South Americans is becoming more and more hostile. Latin americans are perceived as pushy, unloyal, ethnocentric, lacking manners, dirty, ugly, stupid, and criminal. They are mostly from Equador, Bolivia and Colombia. There are great numbers of Argentines as well, and they are far from being popular.

Ditto. In general the perception of spaniards among Mexicans is that they’re uncouth and the excrement of europe. Of course like everything in life there are always exemptions as there are both open-minded Latin Americans (from nations that are predominantly Native American in ancestry) and Spaniards that get along nicely. Take Paz Vega and her Venezuelan husband for a celebrity example. So animosity between the two shouldn’t always be automatically assumed if both parties are able put negative preconceptions of each other to one side and act like mature educated adults. I can’t remember where I heard this and whether it is correct but supposedly there are a lot more spaniards living in Mexico than vice versa.

[vgambler33]

buddy said:

Educate Me,


I've also heard that in Mexico, Cortes is viewed as "el diablo," whereas Cuahtemoc is hailed as the first Mexican national hero.


That is true. What is funny is that alot whites in Mexico who are of Spanish ancestry also dislike Hernan Cortes lolol.
I guess the Mexican schools have taught them that.

[eufrenio]

ienjoylurking said:

Eufrenio, any particular reason for Argentines being unpopular?

the usual things? (arrogant, jews, not really spaniards but more like italians, fake, prepotence..etc?)

More or less the usual reasons. You can add that the more recent Argentines that we get are of the shady type, involved in swindles and shady businesses.

[eufrenio]

halcyon said:

Ditto. In general the perception of spaniards among Mexicans is that they’re uncouth and the excrement of europe. Of course like everything in life there are always exemptions as there are both open-minded Latin Americans (from nations that are predominantly Native American in ancestry) and Spaniards that get along nicely. Take Paz Vega and her Venezuelan husband for a celebrity example. So animosity between the two shouldn’t always be automatically assumed if both parties are able put negative preconceptions of each other to one side and act like mature educated adults. I can’t remember where I heard this and whether it is correct but supposedly there are a lot more spaniards living in Mexico than vice versa.

That´s correct, there are virtually no Mexicans in Spain.
As to the preconceptions, Latin American countries are no longer viewed as exotic lands of opportunity, as they used to be seen by Spaniards, but more like tourist destinations and Third World hell-holes. Sadly, that´s the fault of Latin Americans.

[Josh]

vgambler33 said:

buddy said:

Educate Me,


I've also heard that in Mexico, Cortes is viewed as "el diablo," whereas Cuahtemoc is hailed as the first Mexican national hero.


That is true. What is funny is that alot whites in Mexico who are of Spanish ancestry also dislike Hernan Cortes lolol.
I guess the Mexican schools have taught them that.

Also, how common are names like Moctezuma or Cuahtemoc? Does one ever see white Mexicans with those names?

[vgambler33]

[quote author=josh board=anythinggoes

Also, how common are names like Moctezuma or Cuahtemoc? Does one ever see white Mexicans with those names?[/quote]

The last name Moctezuma is common, the name Cuahtemoc is common in Mexico. I have no idea if white living in Mexico have the name Cuahtemoc. Anyone in Mexico with the last name Moctezuma have some Aztec ancestry.

[buddy]

^LOL, that would be very hard to picture a criollo with the name "Cuahtemoc" or "Montezuma."

[Educate Me]

some amerindian names like Nahuel are common here among whites

[Josh]

buddy said:

^LOL, that would be very hard to picture a criollo with the name "Cuahtemoc" or "Montezuma."

I recall a picture of a mostly white Mestizo with the surname, Moctezuma, being posted on here. I thought it looked pretty out of place with his appearance.

[vgambler33]

ienjoylurking said:

some amerindian names like Nahuel are common here among whites

crazy.