Racists posing as interested in human biodiversity

[Graeme]

I come from a democratic country and was born in a democratic country and have lived in democratic countries. So I am accepting of free speech and other people expressing their opinions and beliefs contrary to mine.

I have noticed that there are too many posters to this forum who are racists, want-to-be Nords or who have agendas about Southerners, Meds. They try to divide or start contentious rows about the genetic origins of the people of the South. When I put forward a different hypothesis eg about Northerners both west and east having obvious mongoloid ancestry, I get told I am being speculative. There is more direct physical, historical and genetic evidence of the greater non caucasian element in Northerners. Does that make me think they are inferior? Not really, though I do not appreciate their achievements. A note for Germans, you lot are mainly Alpines not Nords. Also despite the photos the racists post, there are no mongolian or negroid populations in the South. In the North there are people of dubious caucasian origin and populations of straight out mongolians. Where in the South are similar populations? I would like to know as I will go there and investigate myself. The racists use the same tack. Mongolians in North Italy, negroid slaves in Ancient Rome, the Moors, as if they were negroid and the "Arabs" even though the "Arabs" were North African Berbers. It seems that having dark hair and eyes is enough to be negroid or mongoloid. Dark hair and eyes are the normal characteristic of humans wherever they live in the world. Having a light skin is dangerous in most parts of the world. Australians have the highest rate of skin cancer. It would be unwise for light skinned people to live in the main parts of the habitable world which are tropical, sub tropical and warm temperate. I can understand Afrocentrists better. Why? Because negroids are always being degraded by a lot of ignorant and racist caucasoids and mongoloids. People from North Africa, West Asia and South Asia are told frequently that they are negroid without a shred of genetic proof, just lots of dubious photos. Most tests on mtDNA and chromosomal DNA are done on very small groups of under 100 people. Tests on that small number are not statistically valid. No bona fide surveys of physical, genetic and other differences have been conducted on large populations representive of each country, only small groups. You can't make too many deductions about the whole population from such small samples. But the racists do. A few tests on small, unrepresentative groups and off they go, frothing at the mouth about the tri racial nature of Italians or Greeks. Science journals also have their fraudsters. Remember the Piltdown Man or the Fusion experiments.

I am a scientist and I don't believe anything unless it can be replicated using the same methods, subjects, conditions etc. In genetic studies this is not being done. Scientists have biases and agendas too. Without being offensive Coon's work is not science just conclusions drawn from small groups of unrelated individuals. Bones and artifacts only give so much information, the rest is speculation. The Kelts for example. All that exists are subjective statements from sources that cannot be proved to be accurate. Yet everyone seems to know what they looked like as an ethnic group. No, you do not know. And there is no evidence that the Irish, Scots or the others are actually Kelts like the Gauls etc. So a lot of what you believe cannot be proven. And that is why I will challenge those who think they know the genetic makeup and phenotype of long gone peoples who happened to live in Europe, eg UP people, the original IE speakers, Etruscans, Neolithics and the others who no longer exist except a components of our European DNA.

[Marina]

Graeme, your "theory" that pink skin is an indicator of Mongol ancestry doesn't seem to be very fact-based. I don't mind that per se, but rather, the rude and hostile way in which you presented your idea (which you have done continually) made it sound silly.

Also, I resent how you called me a "Wannabe Nordic" on Skadi. Just because I disagreed with you about the origins of most Nordics does not make me a "wannabe."

A bit off-topic, but your skin color identification system (ie, "ivory skin is the color of the bones of dead elephants, it is yellow!" and "milk-white is different from ivory-white!") is pretty rediculous.

[HINDI]

Well I also think you're a wannabe Nordic

[Necronomicom]

HINDI said:

Well I also think you're a wannabe Nordic

well HINDI, but you are a wannabe med

[Graeme]

I just don't think haemoglobin tinged flesh beautiful, a symbol of being caucasoid or anything special. Pigs can be pinkish, black, brown, mixed, but hey, so what? A pig is a pig.

I live in an Anglo country, there are lots of pinkish people here. Does it make them beautiful, moral, enterprising, adept or intelligent? No. Also my skin has blood in it too and it shows, does that make me more caucasian than a darker skinned European. No. There are lots of mongoloid people who are pink skinned with rosy cheeks. So what! Fijians and Australian Aborigines have blonds in their races. So what!

I am entitled to have my preferences in what attracts me and what I consider quintessentially caucasian. For me it is not the so called Nordic type. I prefer white skin. The Irish type is very attractive and has nothing to do with Nords despite what you believe. Irish skin is white.

Marina do not reply to anything that I have started. You are vexacious and unwanted. You are ridiculous. Why? I am not mixed race person trying to pass myself off as white. Unlike most of you, I know my forebears for many generations and they come from the same place in Europe. I can tell from their surnames and places of birth that they are native to that place. The only foreigner was a Scotsman born in the 1700s and who gave me my surname. And from British naval records I know what his description. Can any of you do that? I doubt it. But you go ahead half cocked with BS about countries and nationalities you know little about except scuttlebutt used by the likes of Rarog.

Also what some of you don't get or refuse to get, is that the skin of Nords sans blood is not white but yellowish. And it tans pretty well. So next time you are applying your makeup look at its colour. Is it white? Or is it yellowish pink. I don't really care what you might believe about Meds or "Arabs" or Alpines, but most of your beliefs are BS and old wivestales accepted without critical thought. Quoting some dead old fart like Coon does not make it right or scientifically valid. In ten years time most of the "data" from mtDNA and nuclear DNA is going to be refuted and thrown in the waste bin. Just try to be a little open minded, less ethnocentric and racist.

[Melnorme]

Graeme, you're waxing hysterical over nothing.
Relax a little.

[Graeme]

Melnorme, I am never hysterical. I do like taking the piss out of people though. It is an Aussie trait. Like pulling peoples' heads out of their rear ends. Most supposed Nordids would not pass muster.

Honestly, is it O.K for impostors to post racist crapola under the guise of being bona fide members interested in human biodiversity? I have read quite a few posts from supposed bona fide members who are trying to peddle the idea that Meds are not caucasoid, white or European. Is easy to see the tack taken: Neolithics are Middle Easterners, IE speech arrived in Europe after the Neolithics, UP populations are the indigenous inhabitants of Europe from 40 kya and thus the true whites and what is unsaid, Nordic in phenotype. I know what the racists are getting at: Meds are coloured folk from Arabia made whiter by absorbing UP types and the Nords are pure UP unaffected by this race mixing.

Every population group, every nationality, every ethnic group in Southern Europe has been targeted as coloured in some way. Black slaves, Moors, Aghalibs in Sicily, Turks in Greece, Middle Eastern slaves, the Phoenicians, the Lombards, contentious mtDNA markers etc. Everything is used to try to prove this belief in the non caucasoid origins of Meds.

My hypothesis regarding Nords, Balts and other northerners being mongoloid genetically and phenotypically eg Ladogans, is far more valid to me than the odd negroes imported as novelties, arena bait, thralls etc by the ancients. I don't accept the use of Med to people native to West Asia, North Africa or India. Meds are Europids and caucasoids unmistakenly distinguisable from those others.

I did pursue Rarog because I wanted him to drop his guard and show his true colours. I doubt that he is from Russia or even European born, his English is too good, like a native speaker. Also Russians know the history of Russia, the long fight against the Golden Horde, the presence of various Tatar groups in Russia or the Ukraine.

I question facts, recorded subjective observations of ancient peoples and the findings of various scientists who belong to less educated, prejudiced times and who had ethnocentric ideas. I thought this forum was for discussing racial biodiversity not providing a home for old hat, racist views.

[geirr]

Graeme said:

Melnorme, I am never hysterical. I do like taking the piss out of people though. It is an Aussie trait. Like pulling peoples' heads out of their rear ends. Most supposed Nordids would not pass muster.

I may have missed it, but did you mention where you were born? just curious

[Marina]

Graeme said:

I just don't think haemoglobin tinged flesh beautiful, a symbol of being caucasoid or anything special. Pigs can be pinkish, black, brown, mixed, but hey, so what? A pig is a pig.

I live in an Anglo country, there are lots of pinkish people here. Does it make them beautiful, moral, enterprising, adept or intelligent? No. Also my skin has blood in it too and it shows, does that make me more caucasian than a darker skinned European. No. There are lots of mongoloid people who are pink skinned with rosy cheeks. So what! Fijians and Australian Aborigines have blonds in their races. So what!

I am entitled to have my preferences in what attracts me and what I consider quintessentially caucasian. For me it is not the so called Nordic type. I prefer white skin. The Irish type is very attractive and has nothing to do with Nords despite what you believe. Irish skin is white.

You're hilarious, and you've just brightnened my day. Ever noticed how everything you say contradicts itself? Irish skin is the pinkest I've ever seen. ;D

Also, I never said that pink skin makes them more Caucasian or anything of the sort; I merely said that pink skin is not Mongolian. Stop misinterpreting my words!

Marina do not reply to anything that I have started. You are vexacious and unwanted. You are ridiculous.

You can't tell me what not to reply to, bub. ;D

Why? I am not mixed race person trying to pass myself off as white. Unlike most of you, I know my forebears for many generations and they come from the same place in Europe. I can tell from their surnames and places of birth that they are native to that place. The only foreigner was a Scotsman born in the 1700s and who gave me my surname. And from British naval records I know what his description. Can any of you do that? I doubt it.

I know who my ancestors were, and they were noble, honorable people. Most of them came from the same place, but I have a little bit of foreign blood as well.

You obviously do not, and in your case, inbreeding is the cause of the crippling mental retardaion (just kidding! ;D)

But you go ahead half cocked with BS about countries and nationalities you know little about except scuttlebutt used by the likes of Rarog.

Also what some of you don't get or refuse to get, is that the skin of Nords sans blood is not white but yellowish. And it tans pretty well. So next time you are applying your makeup look at its colour. Is it white? Or is it yellowish pink. I don't really care what you might believe about Meds or "Arabs" or Alpines, but most of your beliefs are BS and old wivestales accepted without critical thought. Quoting some dead old fart like Coon does not make it right or scientifically valid. In ten years time most of the "data" from mtDNA and nuclear DNA is going to be refuted and thrown in the waste bin. Just try to be a little open minded, less ethnocentric and racist.

What can I say after that little outburst...? Well, you just don't get it. Skin either has cool (pink) undertones or warm (yellow) undertones. You can't have pink skin with yellow underneath it!

And for future reference, if you don't want to tick people off, try not personally insulting them (ie, "you are not attractive, whatever your skin type.") I have a right to disagree with you, you know.

[caucasoid]

Graeme said:

Quoting some dead old fart like Coon does not make it right or scientifically valid.

What do you have against CS Coon exactly?

[Marina]

caucasoid said:

What do you have against CS Coon exactly?

Graeme thinks Coon is an "outdated old fart"... Apparently he despises anything that isn't "modern." Makes sense; Graeme seems like the typical "modern guy."

[jul]

Well in the danger of being conciderd to be snootily to stick my self in a discussion what is not *mine*.
Im not a Skadi user nor a racist in the commun wordsence (aside i am just in the moment im interested in the whole topic... )
But I did read enough in the last weeks to find out (for me) a sad truth: Both groups seemed to do the same.
Ok let me explain: on the one Hand we have a bunch of people who tell: uhhh these meds they are somewhat of nonwhite!Bad bad negro blood(LOL) on the other hand we have a remarkable number of meds who shouts out: huuuuh the nordics are that nonwhite! a bunch of bad asian blood!(LOL)
Come on, Graeme i can understand when youre offendended by some dorks but is that the reaction to show youre smart? Its exact the same. I cant stand the one nor the other discussion nor any discussion what goes like that, and have heard them from really other sides too. I dont wanna piss anyone. It just remind me on a heap of kindergardenkids who tell each other:Im better because my father has a faster car or somewhat.
If i wouldnt be interested in the topic *Race* i wouldnt here but i actually hate every discussion what goes like:"we are better, because". I dont like that wherever i hear that. I dont hear that from mixed people nor from nordics nor from asian or african.
At least no one is just by his*race*superior or better than other. We all are differ and this is ok but that makes us generally not better,comparing to others - just differ. I daubt that claiming a *seperatation*
makes our world better.
Just for the reference:(for those who may not get it by now)
I dont have any understanding now feelings for those who are extremists esp. for nords. I havent choose the country i was born, but to grow up in germany. i still cant understand who anyone can be proud to be on that whole Nazi stuff. And who claims its cool and it was right has in my eyes a lack of historytaste is brainwashed or just dumb. I dont say that other countrys/ethnic groups didnt do the same.
For my case everyone can be celebrate where he comes from or whathever. But saying the other is less worth just he is differ is ignorant
I just wanted to say.

[Graeme]

I was born in Southern Europe, that is as far as I will go, because I don't care for ethnocentrism or jingoism. Also I am not offended by anything anyone could say about any country in Europe or elsewhere. I live in Australia where the air is clean and the sun shines and people are free. I am totally neutral, but I will make racists try to substantiate their belief of the non Europeanness of Southern Europeans. They can't without using spurious photos or documents.

Marina/Adelaide: I started this thread for thinkers and non bigots; that ain't you. You are one of those with your head firmly wedged up your arse. Get lost! I don't care what you think or how you look like for a part Chinese person. You looked terrible with those blond hair extensions. You obviously do not know any modern men just archaic ones. We moderns treat women equally and make no concessions because of sex,gender or sexual preference. Rarog is a troll, but you can't see that or his new member name, still trying to prove how Nord his Central Russians are.

Jul, I couldn't understand exactly what you were saying, but rest assured I love all races equally and have done so in the past. I accept that all humans are equal in their potentials. My issue is with certain individuals and their racist beliefs. My son is part Chinese on his mothers side and it came as a shock to him when I told him. I thought he should know his heritage. He is red haired and more pinker than Marina/Adelaide or any want-to-be Nord whose appearance I have seen.

Also I have lived in the US/Canada/Europe including UK and travelled extensively. So I have seen a lot of this world and its people, and don't just rely on beliefs or what others have told me.

Carleton Coon was born in 1904 in the USA and had the limitations of someone born in the beginning of the 20th century and in the USA of his day. His science is passe. Don't have anything against him as a person as he is not a contemporary of mine. He looked like a dark Kelt, by the way, Welsh I would say.

[Marina]

Graeme said:

Marina/Adelaide: I started this thread for thinkers and non bigots; that ain't you. You are one of those with your head firmly wedged up your arse. Get lost! I don't care what you think or how you look like for a part Chinese person. You looked terrible with those blond hair extensions. You obviously do not know any modern men just archaic ones. We moderns treat women equally and make no concessions because of sex,gender or sexual preference.

If you're such a modern man who loves all races equally and want to treat all women equally regardless of race, then why do you say you don't care about me for being a "part-Chinese person?" (By the way, I never said I was part Chinese, I said I was part Russian. But I guess that's the same thing to you. )

And I did NOT have hair extensions in that picture. I don't know about in Aussieland, but here the only people who wear hair extensions are black women and trashy performers (like Britney Spears.)

By the way, I still can't get over the fact that you claim to love all races equally... (That's total BS! ;D) On Skadi you said that you didn't like Mongoloids, "short stumpy types," Slavs and a hefty list of others I can't remember. (Like: Hey! I love all races equally, but I just can't stand Southern Europeans like yourself! {just kidding, of course!} ;D )

I can't believe they haven't banned you yet, the way you're always flinging personal insults.

[Marina]

Graeme said:

I live in Australia where the air is clean and the sun shines and people are free.

So what? I live in America where the air is polluted and the sun is blocked by said air pollution.

But one thing: Mediterraneans are not called "Wogs" here. ;D