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Post by Dienekes on Jan 22, 2006 4:30:42 GMT -5
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Post by Planet Asia on Jan 22, 2006 4:37:17 GMT -5
Negroid lineages, lol, those are on modern Egyptians, not the ancients, my argument has never been about moderns and my data I posted still stands, plus you're negating East African E3b1, your definition of Negroid lineages are what you want to see. |
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Post by Planet Asia on Jan 22, 2006 4:42:07 GMT -5
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Post by Dienekes on Jan 22, 2006 4:45:43 GMT -5
Negroid lineages, lol, those are on modern Egyptians, not the ancients, my argument has never been about moderns and my data I posted still stands, plus you're negating East African E3b1, your definition of Negroid lineages are what you want to see. E3b1 is not Negroid, because if it was then Peloponnesians and Kosovar Albanians would be quadroons, which is patently false. Moreover, E3b is clearly associated with Caucasoid morphology dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.forsciint.2005.03.009i.e., component EA2 (dark-skinned Caucasian). Furthermore, your contention that the ancient Egyptian were Negroid implies that a thickly-settled country such as Egypt has suffered a massive population replacement, effectively eradicating almost ALL Negroid lineages. Needless to say, this is not the case, and the data show only 4/44 and 1/29 of haplogroup J in N and S Egypt, the most frequent Near Eastern haplogroup, thus invalidating any assertion that Caucasoids replaced the original "Negroid" population of Egypt. |
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Post by Planet Asia on Jan 22, 2006 4:53:49 GMT -5
Negroid lineages, lol, those are on modern Egyptians, not the ancients, my argument has never been about moderns and my data I posted still stands, plus you're negating East African E3b1, your definition of Negroid lineages are what you want to see. E3b1 is not Negroid, because if it was then Peloponnesians and Kosovar Albanians would be quadroons, which is patently false. The E3b1 in Egyptians is mostly consisted on East African specific E3b1, not European or Balkan E3b1, period. I don't believe in labelling lineages as caucasoid for the same reeason Underhill stated why. Yup, 77.5% E3b1 Somalis are clearly affiliated with Caucasoid morphology, lies. I have the full text to that study also, so you're falsely misrepresenting it, once again. I never said Ancient egyptians were Negroid by your definition of what a Negroid is, I said they more similar to East Africans and I am correct and East Africans are Negroid, just a different type of Negroid, not some caucasoid race as you envision in your Medocentric dreams. |
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Post by Dienekes on Jan 22, 2006 5:00:22 GMT -5
Egyptians only have 17.6-28.6% of E3b1 and actually Northern Egyptians have more! www.familytreedna.com/pdf/hape3b.pdfSo, you'll have to look elsewhere for your hypothetical Negroid Egyptians, lol Peloponnesians and Kosovar Albanians have more E3b1 than Egyptians  |
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Post by magneto on Jan 22, 2006 9:14:44 GMT -5
Charlie/Planet Asia,why do you waste so much time arguing about Egypt?It's an endless topic that you'll never win on here LOL.
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Post by Agrippa on Jan 22, 2006 13:39:44 GMT -5
First of all the definition of Negrid is not Dienekes or mine alone but its THE definition of Negrid per se. Its interesting to compare skulls of the book I quoted from Negrid and Europid Egyptians and Nubians, the difference is in most cases obvious and should be even to the untrained eye, even more so if looking at the metrical and non-metrical traits in detail. East Africans are more complicated, but I just repeat myself. Its interesting to mention that in Nubia/Sudan we see partly not too much typical Aethiopids but mainly not fully stabilised mixtures and rather Europoid and quite typical Negrid individuals. Well, thats interesting, but did he spoke about Negrid admixture? I can quote some estimation for various findings of that period: Material from Naga ed-Deir: Skulls bigger than the Badari-skulls, they have a longer face, lower prognathy and are not just broadnosed but have also medium noses. For the first time we find brachycranic individuals (about 2%). The Negrid proportion was estimated for 2% "pure" (SMITH AND WOOD JONES 1910) and 3 to 4 % "mixed" forms (HRDLICKA 1910). If hairs were found, they were dark brown to black, the form was simple, wavy or curly, whereas there were no Negrid frizzy hairs. The body height was medium, the body build gracile. The predynastic dated skulls from the series of Naqada and Ballas are close to the protodynastic skulls. The Naqada skulls are closer to Negrids than the skulls of the historical time from Abydos and Giza. For Lower Egypt most findings were, as I said, Cromagnoid and Mediterranoid with minor Negrid elements. Thats right, the type of pharaos changed partly and there were members of the Northern and Southern type in the ruling class. Negrids were the exception and usually mentioned as such like the priest Hereschefhotep, Middle Empire, at Abusir near Kairo (Luschan 1908). Define Negrid and Negroid by the way, does it include any phenotypical features in your definition?  If its about skin color and hair form alone, a poor definition of Negrid, Egyptians were not strongly Negroid influenced, if considering prognathy, jaws, nasal shape, forehead and body skeleton, things are even clearer. |
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Post by Ewig Berter on Jan 22, 2006 15:21:10 GMT -5
Yes and In my past life I was the King of Spain. President of Egypt, Hosni Mubarak Egypt's most beloved person ever! Oum Kalthoum Ayman Nour, popular opposition leader Ayman Nour with his supporters who are mainly the educated upper-middle class of Egypt These people look pretty Med to me and they all belong to Egypt's elite just like their ancestors. I'll post later a whole bunch of Egyptian music artists, thinkers, scholars, misses, ministers, intellectuals, writers, actors, ... the elite of Egyptian society. Atlantis, these people might have some AE ancestors but whats quite certain, either from their looks or from the info known on them, is that they are of mostly middle eastern orgine. ( F.e. Oum Kelthoum is 100% Arabid; she is from an arabic tribe of Saed of Egypt). |
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Post by Agrippa on Jan 22, 2006 15:32:23 GMT -5
Its worth to mention that while Copts are less influenced by Arabs they have generally weaker Negrid admixture (than Muslim Egyptians) according to some sources. A major factor for Negroid admixture in modern Egyptians is obviously slave trade and immigration.    From the left: Youssef Sidhom, Adly A. Youssef, Michael Meunier, Daniel Pipes. (so not all are Egyptian Copts obviously)   When I'm at home again I will post plates, data and skull examples as well as further quotes from various authors and will add that to the respective threads on Skadi and Stirpes ass attachments - quotes and links will be posted here too. I think some anthropologists made the mistake to equate primitive with Negrid, thats why they find "Subsaharan Africans" in too many groups. They should have read some anthropologists which wrote about racial typology and distinguished between different strata, general tropical forms and Negrid race (in the narrower sense). But thats not that important for Lower Egypt since this region was latest since the Neolithicum in the Europid definition and still is. |
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Post by Ewig Berter on Jan 22, 2006 15:33:09 GMT -5
I believe Ancient Egyptians were Mediterranoids; The closest living mediterranoid branch to their (now practically extinct) type is the Capsid subtype of Berberids. Ramses II vs Moroccan (Capsid -- Chelh)  Additional picture of that same moroccan's grand brother (looks typically berberid, IMO).  |
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Post by Ewig Berter on Jan 22, 2006 15:46:12 GMT -5
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Post by asdf on Jan 22, 2006 15:48:39 GMT -5
Capsid? Named after the Capsian culture?
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Post by Ewig Berter on Jan 22, 2006 15:49:50 GMT -5
Capsid? Named after the Capsian culture? Yes. |
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Post by asdf on Jan 22, 2006 15:53:04 GMT -5
What are its distinctive features?
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