Egyptian DNA

[Planet Asia]

Were Atlantis, Igu, Alexandrian and Berter elling the truth when they said Egyptians have no mixture from sub-Saharan Africa? Lets see:

[Planet Asia]

IV is west and central African

V is Horn of African/Supra-Saharan

XI is Horn of Africa

Another image

[Dienekes]

You are a bit out of date. 49a,f mutations are not unique event polymorphisms.

Y-haplogroups have been studied in both North and South Egyptians by Arredi et al. (2004)

www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJHG/journal/issues/v75n2/41184/41184.html

North Egypt: 1 A3b2 out of 44.
South Egypt : 0 Sub-Saharan lineages.

There is no evidence of significant patrilineal Negroid contribution in the modern Egyptian population.

[Planet Asia]

admin said:

You are a bit out of date. 49a,f mutations are not unique event polymorphisms.

Y-haplogroups have been studied in both North and South Egyptians by Arredi et al. (2004)

www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJHG/journal/issues/v75n2/41184/41184.html

North Egypt: 1 A3b2 out of 44.
South Egypt : 0 Sub-Saharan lineages.

There is no evidence of significant patrilineal Negroid contribution in the modern Egyptian population.

Arredi et tal is just one study and who says 49a,f mutations are outdated and unuseful? Arredi et tal's study doesn't refute Lucotte's study unless they studied the same samples which I'm sure he didn't so his study is still as valid as it was.

[Dienekes]

You conveniently keep forgetting the parts you don't like. This is how Lucotte explains the north/south differentiation:

"It is interesting to relate this peculiar north/south differentiation, a pattern of genetic variation deriving from the two uniparentally inherited genetic systems (mtDNA and Y chromosome), to specific historic events. Since the beginning of Egyptian history (3200-3100 B.C.), the legendary king Menes united Upper and Lower Egypt. Migration from north to south may coincide with the Pharaonic colonization of Nubia, which occurred initially during the Middle Kingdom (12th Dynasty, 1991-1785 B.C.), and more permanently during the New Kingdom, from the reign of Thotmosis III (1490-1437 B.C.). The main migration from south to north may coincide with the 25th Dynasty (730-655 B.C.), when kings from Napata (in Nubia) conquered Egypt."

[Planet Asia]

admin said:

You conveniently keep forgetting the parts you don't like. This is how Lucotte explains the north/south differentiation:

"It is interesting to relate this peculiar north/south differentiation, a pattern of genetic variation deriving from the two uniparentally inherited genetic systems (mtDNA and Y chromosome), to specific historic events. Since the beginning of Egyptian history (3200-3100 B.C.), the legendary king Menes united Upper and Lower Egypt. Migration from north to south may coincide with the Pharaonic colonization of Nubia, which occurred initially during the Middle Kingdom (12th Dynasty, 1991-1785 B.C.), and more permanently during the New Kingdom, from the reign of Thotmosis III (1490-1437 B.C.). The main migration from south to north may coincide with the 25th Dynasty (730-655 B.C.), when kings from Napata (in Nubia) conquered Egypt."

Look at Upper Egypt and Lower Nubia which have low but significant levels of haplotype V. Egypt colonized Lower Nubia for a much longer period than Nubia ruling Egypt yet Lower Nubia has low amounts of haplotype V, which Egyptians mixed very little paternally with Nubians. Look at haplotype IV, significant in Upper Egyptian and Lower Nubia and low in Lower Egypt. It is a well known fact that Nubia ruled all of Egypt and not just Upper Egypt so why the difference? Nubians and Upper Egyptians are craniometrically nearly the same people so the appearance of IV can't solely be due to long term Nubian migration into Egypt. Haplotype V is hard to define because its very high in Ethiopians but lower in Nubians.

[Planet Asia]

I rest my case, Egytians have mixture from sub-Saharan East Africa

[mhagneto]

admin said:

You conveniently keep forgetting the parts you don't like. This is how Lucotte explains the north/south differentiation:

"It is interesting to relate this peculiar north/south differentiation, a pattern of genetic variation deriving from the two uniparentally inherited genetic systems (mtDNA and Y chromosome), to specific historic events. Since the beginning of Egyptian history (3200-3100 B.C.), the legendary king Menes united Upper and Lower Egypt. Migration from north to south may coincide with the Pharaonic colonization of Nubia, which occurred initially during the Middle Kingdom (12th Dynasty, 1991-1785 B.C.), and more permanently during the New Kingdom, from the reign of Thotmosis III (1490-1437 B.C.). The main migration from south to north may coincide with the 25th Dynasty (730-655 B.C.), when kings from Napata (in Nubia) conquered Egypt."

/

Note the last sentence in the abstract:

Am J Hum Genet. 1999 Apr;64(4):1166-76. Related Articles, Links


mtDNA analysis of Nile River Valley populations: A genetic corridor or a barrier to migration?

Krings M, Salem AE, Bauer K, Geisert H, Malek AK, Chaix L, Simon C, Welsby D, Di Rienzo A, Utermann G, Sajantila A, Paabo S, Stoneking M.

Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology, Leipzig, and Department of Zoology, University of Munich, Munich, Germany.

To assess the extent to which the Nile River Valley has been a corridor for human migrations between Egypt and sub-Saharan Africa, we analyzed mtDNA variation in 224 individuals from various locations along the river. Sequences of the first hypervariable segment (HV1) of the mtDNA control region and a polymorphic HpaI site at position 3592 allowed us to designate each mtDNA as being of "northern" or "southern" affiliation. Proportions of northern and southern mtDNA differed significantly between Egypt, Nubia, and the southern Sudan. At slowly evolving sites within HV1, northern-mtDNA diversity was highest in Egypt and lowest in the southern Sudan, and southern-mtDNA diversity was highest in the southern Sudan and lowest in Egypt, indicating that migrations had occurred bidirectionally along the Nile River Valley. Egypt and Nubia have low and similar amounts of divergence for both mtDNA types, which is consistent with historical evidence for long-term interactions between Egypt and Nubia. Spatial autocorrelation analysis demonstrates a smooth gradient of decreasing genetic similarity of mtDNA types as geographic distance between sampling localities increases, strongly suggesting gene flow along the Nile, with no evident barriers. We conclude that these migrations probably occurred within the past few hundred to few thousand years and that the migration from north to south was either earlier or lesser in the extent of gene flow than the migration from south to north.

[Planet Asia]

So what is that supposed to mean? geneflow went both ways.

[mhagneto]

bertrand said:

So what is that supposed to mean? geneflow went both ways.

/

Bass, it's hopeless to respond to someone who's reading comprehension is as bad as yours. If you cant understand that last line in the abstract, I'm astonished you got through high school, forget college. Science "big time" , huh? Dont make me laugh. It's no wonder you misunderstand all these studies, and make up what what you want to believe about them. But you'll never give up, will you, as long as you're obsessed with redeeming the image of your "black race"./

[Planet Asia]

mhagneto said:

bertrand said:

So what is that supposed to mean? geneflow went both ways.

/

Bass, it's hopeless to respond to someone who's reading comprehension is as bad as yours. If you cant understand that last line in the abstract, I'm astonished you got through high school, forget college. Science "big time" , huh? Dont make me laugh. It's no wonder you misunderstand all these studies, and make up what what you want to believe about them. But you'll never give up, will you, as long as you're obsessed with redeeming the image of your "black race"./

translation:

I have nomethod of arguing back now I'm resorting to ad-hominem attacks.




Pay attention and read, look at haplotype XI, not just IV, you mean to tell me that this is the result on Nubian geneflow into Egypt?

[mhagneto]

bertrand said:

mhagneto said:

/

Bass, it's hopeless to respond to someone who's reading comprehension is as bad as yours. If you cant understand that last line in the abstract, I'm astonished you got through high school, forget college. Science "big time" , huh? Dont make me laugh. It's no wonder you misunderstand all these studies, and make up what what you want to believe about them. But you'll never give up, will you, as long as you're obsessed with redeeming the image of your "black race"./

translation:

I have nomethod of arguing back now I'm resorting to ad-hominem attacks.




Pay attention and read, look at haplotype XI, not just IV, you mean to tell me that this is the result on Nubian geneflow into Egypt?

/

You dont even know what an ad hominem is, chowderhead.

I wasnt telling you anything, you lunatic. I was adding a minor, subsidiary comment from another paper for the attention of Dienekes and now you're ranting as if you're a paranoid just escaped from the loonybin, when I havent even read the study you quote to me above and about which I wasnt saying anything. Arrrrgggghhhhhh!

[Planet Asia]

mhagneto said:

bertrand said:

translation:

I have nomethod of arguing back now I'm resorting to ad-hominem attacks.




Pay attention and read, look at haplotype XI, not just IV, you mean to tell me that this is the result on Nubian geneflow into Egypt?

/

You dont even know what an ad hominem is, chowderhead.

I wasnt telling you anything, you lunatic. I was adding a minor, subsidiary comment from another paper for the attention of Dienekes and now you're ranting as if you're a paranoid just escaped from the loonybin, when I havent even read the study you quote to me above and about which I wasnt saying anything. Arrrrgggghhhhhh!

Basically you still have no answers, just ranting response. Look at haplotype XI in Egypt and in Upper and Lower Nubia, what does it mean? please no trolling, just an educated response. Stop hanging Dienekes coattails.

[mhagneto]

bertrand said:

mhagneto said:

/

You dont even know what an ad hominem is, chowderhead.

I wasnt telling you anything, you lunatic. I was adding a minor, subsidiary comment from another paper for the attention of Dienekes and now you're ranting as if you're a paranoid just escaped from the loonybin, when I havent even read the study you quote to me above and about which I wasnt saying anything. Arrrrgggghhhhhh!

Basically you still have no answers, just ranting response. Look at haplotype XI in Egypt and in Upper and Lower Nubia, what does it mean? please no trolling, just an educated response. Stop hanging Dienekes coattails.

/

Bass, you are completely insane!

[Planet Asia]

mhagneto said:

bertrand said:

Basically you still have no answers, just ranting response. Look at haplotype XI in Egypt and in Upper and Lower Nubia, what does it mean? please no trolling, just an educated response. Stop hanging Dienekes coattails.

/

Bass, you are completely insane!

Insane? I'm asking you a question and you have no answers. I rest my case.