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Post by dyn on Feb 28, 2005 3:08:55 GMT -5
Simpleton Russians had all opportunity in the world to mix with Mongols during the time Mongols expanded to the West, led by grandson of Cheghiz-Batu. Do you think his humangous army were having affairs with aristocrats only? Mongols affected all nations on their way from Pakistan to Poland. No, I don't agree with that. But what exactly do you think? Some kind of mass rape scenario? Because Mongols certainly were not going off into the northern forests to settle in Slavic villages. That's downright laughable. The Mongols couldn't even occupy an area for a long time because they had to keep moving. In any area that didn't have enough forage for their cavalry armies, they simply couldn't stay. Some mixing scenario would make sense if there was a lengthy occupation of territory but that didn't happen. The Mongols or Tatars collected tribute from their bases hundreds of miles away from ethnic Russian population centers. Siberian Tatars? There was what, 50 of them? And Yermak probably killed 35. But what would they have to do with, for example, "central" Russia? Most of the ethnic Russians east of the Urals arrived after 1900. The Old Believers in Siberia for example did not mix with the "native" people. Brachycephaly is standard in Poland, for example, where Mongols and Uralics were hardly a factor. Speaking of Coon, according to him there is an area in Russia that borders on (and probably once was) Finno-Ugrian territory which is mostly mesocephalic. Coon called the Russians there "essentially Nordic." And of course most ethnic Russians have well-defined nasal bridges.
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Post by Kazakhgirl on Feb 28, 2005 3:36:13 GMT -5
You do not have a single scinetific fact, just your emotional speculation. Why don't you subscribe to Russian Genetic journal instead. If 300 years of Mongols presence are not long enough... I think what everyone would think about the fact when one nation controls another one for 300 years. They don't have to go to forests to impose tehmselves. What about cities or all Russians were in forests and urban population was made of some other mythical people?
Siberian Tartar was just an example of small ethnos engulfed in stronger one. There are thousands of such examples. That what is so unique about Russia and make Russia so versatile and vital.
By the way how do you explain Tat C percentage in Russians and other Asian marker and allels?
first you say that Ugro finns are Caucasians, which is partually true, now you talk about some forest Russians, which is also partually true. All these half true theories come up in order to not be associated with Asians. Some inferiority complex is here. you are just like Alexandrian in your own way, which is sad and childish. It is like a teen, who tries to be part of a stronger gang in school, to fit into dominant system. Certain element of denial and self hatred. I don't care about Russian-Mongol friend-piece common history crap, but people like you and Alexandrian never stop to surprise me. What are the motives?
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Post by dyn on Feb 28, 2005 4:29:08 GMT -5
You do not have a single scinetific fact, just your emotional speculation. Why don't you subscribe to Russian Genetic journal instead. If 300 years of Mongols presence are not long enough... I think what everyone would think about the fact when one nation controls another one for 300 years. They don't have to go to forests to impose tehmselves. What about cities or all Russians were in forests and urban population was made of some other mythical people? Why don't you tell me, what does the Russian genetic journal say about this? You talk about a Mongol "presence" without giving any specifics. They didn't garrison the towns. Also, the Tatar-Mongols on the Volga became Muslims, which would have acted as another barrier to mixing. I just checked about this and "Siberian Tatars" still exist today. And you should differentiate between cultural and biological assimilation. Where is the proof that Tat C is a Mongoloid marker? The rate of Tat-C is considerably higher among Finns and Balts, but they are hardly quasi-Mongoloid. What is partially true here? Ugro-Finns vary but most of them are predominantly Caucasoid. And look at the ancient Russian towns like Novgorod, Pskov, Smolensk, Rostov etc. What kind of territory was that? It wasn't steppe land. As a southern European mix, I really must have some alterior motive here. Look, all you or anyone else has to do is present genetic studies that say "significant Mongoloid admixture" and that's it. I couldn't argue with that.
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Post by Kazakhgirl on Feb 28, 2005 5:25:17 GMT -5
I'm going to look for article about Y chromosome in Russians, maybe even subscribe to one of those genetic magazines. It is very interesting topic and I plan to present it in separate topic. It is unfair to this topic to discuss unrelated things and it is my fault.
It never was said by me or others about significant mongoloid admixture in Russian. In opposite insignficant. Plus significant interraction with Mongoloid nations when you said that Mongols and russians did not interract. But You totaly deny any admixture as I see, so look forward for a new topic in few days, maybe even tommorow.
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Post by Shenuda on Feb 28, 2005 12:06:26 GMT -5
Anyway, most of them don't have very many Negroid features aside from curly hair. Sure, they're dark-skinned but that basically means nothing, so, no, Shenuda, I'm not "very angry". Look at the kids in the first pic, I detect no negroid features in any of them. I totally expected this kind of response from you Alexandrian(" but they don´t look very negroid, this one is very mediterrean, they are just tanned etc. blablabla"). You are funny And Qena is a hole and I doubt that any of those people is Sudanese or Nubian, because they live only is some areas as Cairo,Alexandria,Aswan and Kom Ombo. Another nice Sa3ayeda from Luxor:
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Post by alexandrian on Feb 28, 2005 18:27:00 GMT -5
don’t forget we are all middeastren in average You're right about that. THe average Egyptian, Yemeni, Saudi, Libyan etc. would fit in in any Middle Eastern country. Middle Eastern people are all very similar, and I'm not trying to dissuade that.
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Post by alexandrian on Feb 28, 2005 18:28:04 GMT -5
I don't have any reason not to believe zain about this and from what I've read about Muhammad bin Laden, it seems to add up. Bin Laden's father was from the Hadramaut region, where there is a high level of non-Caucasoid admixture. So even if he wasn't of an Afro-Arab caste, he probably wouldn't have been a pure Arab. There is a distinction between the highland tribes and the rest of the population in Yemen. You posted a picture of black African descended people in the coastal regions of Yemen. Okay, so let me get this straight, Yemenis with non-Yemeni negroid admixture can't be real Yemenis, but Egyptians with non-Egyptian negroid admixture have to be real egyptians? That reeks of hypocrisy if you ask me.
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Post by alexandrian on Feb 28, 2005 18:29:20 GMT -5
I totally expected this kind of response from you Alexandrian(" but they don´t look very negroid, this one is very mediterrean, they are just tanned etc. blablabla"). You are funny
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Post by zain on Feb 28, 2005 21:08:29 GMT -5
You're right about that. THe average Egyptian, Yemeni, Saudi, Libyan etc. would fit in in any Middle Eastern country. Middle Eastern people are all very similar, and I'm not trying to dissuade that. I agree and Afro-Arab are Yemeni if they are in Yemen , Saudi if they are in Saudi arabia, Egyptian if they are in Egypt or you can call them Afro-Egyptian , but we all understand they are ethnic minority
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Post by zain on Feb 28, 2005 21:14:10 GMT -5
Indeed on photo are Coptic Egyptians, which are also in some extent belong to minority. It is like war of pictures of two minorities, when truth is in beteween. that is absurd ,just because there are black in America and white ,that does not mean the truth is in between ,same for Egypt.
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Post by alexandrian on Feb 28, 2005 21:24:34 GMT -5
I agree and Afro-Arab are Yemeni if they are in Yemen , Saudi if they are in Saudi arabia, Egyptian if they are in Egypt or you can call them Afro-Egyptian , but we all understand they are ethnic minority yes, I'm glad we're in agreement.
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Post by dyn on Feb 28, 2005 22:14:41 GMT -5
I totally expected this kind of response from you Alexandrian(" but they don´t look very negroid, this one is very mediterrean, they are just tanned etc. blablabla"). You are funny And Qena is a hole and I doubt that any of those people is Sudanese or Nubian, because they live only is some areas as Cairo,Alexandria,Aswan and Kom Ombo. Another nice Sa3ayeda from Luxor: My niggas! ;D
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Post by alexandrian on Feb 28, 2005 22:27:46 GMT -5
My niggas! ;D I like how you completely disregarded the earlier post of actual Egyptians who, unlike these guys, probably don't have foreign admixture, in order to make it seem like Shenuda's Saeedi pic is a good representation of the Egyptian population.
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Post by dyn on Feb 28, 2005 22:56:00 GMT -5
I like how you completely disregarded the earlier post of actual Egyptians who, unlike these guys, probably don't have foreign admixture, in order to make it seem like Shenuda's Saeedi pic is a good representation of the Egyptian population. Alexandrian, you really gotta stop denying the Negroid influence when it's SO DAMN OBVIOUS! Come on, are you accusing Shenuda of blatantly trying to deceive people here? What reason would he have for doing that?
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Post by alexandrian on Feb 28, 2005 23:16:24 GMT -5
Alexandrian, you really gotta stop denying the Negroid influence when it's SO DAMN OBVIOUS! Come on, are you accusing Shenuda of blatantly trying to deceive people here? What reason would he have for doing that? And you have to stop denying the Caucasoid nature of egyptians!! I posted you a much more dependable pic of Egyptians and you completely disregarded it to buy up Shenuda's propaganda. He clearly has an agenda. And even he admits that egypt is overwhelminly Med. FURTHERMORE, when I posted pics of Yemenis much blacker than any Egyptians ever posted on this board, you dismissed them of having mixed with non-yemeni Negroids. HELLO. Why is it that Yemenis with non-Yemeni Negroid origins are not legitimate citations but Egyptians with non-egyptians Negroid origins are??? That makes no sense. Explain it to me.
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