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Post by HINDI on Dec 2, 2003 12:28:12 GMT -5
Nope they don't
You don't know a thing about my country..
They know nordics aren't Aryan..they know who they are and where they descent from...not nordic anyway..
Nordics are eventually being portrayed like snobs in a sarcastic way in Hindi films..It has something to do with the hate against the British.
Furthermore they have a thing for Italian clothing as far as I know..
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Post by Pugnox on Dec 2, 2003 13:23:39 GMT -5
A general comment to the forum on Indian "scholarship":
Many Indian "scholars" of Indian pre-history will go to great illogical leaps to "prove" that the ancient Aryans weren't nordics or some will argue that they weren't even white, or even came down from the north! Actually, I've never met an Indian "scholar" of pre-history worth reading.
Western scholars have a range of opinions on this topic of merit but even in this politically correct environment most will admit that the Aryans were a branch of the Indo-European family and were "white". Indian literature is filled with descriptions of Aryan heroes being blue-eyed and light-skinned.
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Post by Dienekes on Dec 2, 2003 15:26:32 GMT -5
Indian literature is filled with descriptions of Aryan heroes being blue-eyed and light-skinned. If it is "filled" with descriptions of Aryan heroes being blue-eyed, you can perhaps come up with, let's say 2-3 passages in early Indian literature describing blue-eyed heroes. "May thy hairs grow as reeds, may they cluster, black, about thy head! (Atharva Veda 6.137.2) Brahmins have strong black hair (Atharva Veda 6.137.3) Let him [the Brahmin Priest] kindle the sacrificial fire while his hair is still black. (Dharma-Sutra 1:2) " |
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Post by AWAR on Dec 2, 2003 15:37:45 GMT -5
My opinion is that the Aryans who invaded India were probably diverse causasoids. Some of them were Irano-Afghan others weren't.
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Post by HINDI on Dec 2, 2003 15:54:45 GMT -5
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Post by AWAR on Dec 2, 2003 16:16:10 GMT -5
I think that the 'Aryans' were a conglomerate of tribes.
The thing that binded them was their language, the proto-IE.
I think it's probable that many of them were ex-Ugric speakers.
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Post by Pugnox on Dec 2, 2003 21:35:02 GMT -5
While the request to site passages in Indian literature where blue-eyed heroes exist is very reasonable. I don't have time right now to answer this request in the manner it deserves. However, I'll site specific examples in Indian literature where heroes are associated with whiteness and enemies with blackness. Sanskrit has the same positive connotations with whiteness as does English, German, Latin, or ancient Greek, but probably even more pronounced.
So, "kala" the word for "black" is also used to describe the poisoness serpent Coluber Naga, also means "abuse, censure, or defamation" while "kalakarnika" means "misfortune", "kalakuta" is a type of poison, "kalajihva" means "having a black tongue" The demon of the Ramayana is described as being black etc.- I can come up with many more examples.
The word that is the reddish-brown color someone above mentioned is "babhru" is meantioned of either Krishna or Siva in the Mahabharata or can also mean "prince, king".
Lastly, white is "balaksha" and is also used to describe women one is in love with. More positive connotations will can follow is any one doesn't get the point.
One final note: The Vedas themselves were written over the course of many hundreds of years and have continually been reedited so sometimes these black/white connotations breakdown a bit as the people reading Sanskrit became more racially mixed with the Dravidians.
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Post by Dienekes on Dec 2, 2003 21:47:58 GMT -5
While the request to site passages in Indian literature where blue-eyed heroes exist is very reasonable. I don't have time right now to answer this request in the manner it deserves. Feel free to bookmark this thread and respond at your own leisure. The association, light=good and dark=bad can be easily explained by the association light=day=safe, and dark=night=unsafe. And even if we accept that "white=good" is due to a racial factor, we don't have to go all the way to the "light-skinned, blue-eyed races" to explain this association: even desert Arabs are lighter-skinned than most East Indians. |
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Post by Pugnox on Dec 2, 2003 22:59:56 GMT -5
Feel free to bookmark this thread and respond at your own leisure. The association, light=good and dark=bad can be easily explained by the association light=day=safe, and dark=night=unsafe. And even if we accept that "white=good" is due to a racial factor, we don't have to go all the way to the "light-skinned, blue-eyed races" to explain this association: even desert Arabs are lighter-skinned than most East Indians. I had a Marxist once claim to me that "white= good" in many languages becuase it was associated with the daytime and safety, etc. So, I challenged, then it must be the case that in African languages "white=good" and "black= bad". Right? Dienekes- do you care to say that this is so before I proceed? |
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Post by AWAR on Dec 3, 2003 4:37:58 GMT -5
People all over the world don't always have the same meanings for same symbolisms.
If the Africans perceive the colour black as 'good' because of their racial characteristics, it doesn't necessarily mean that 10.000 miles from there others perceive it as 'good' or 'bad' for the same reasons ( race ).
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Post by HINDI on Dec 3, 2003 6:22:09 GMT -5
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Post by Melnorme on Dec 3, 2003 6:27:13 GMT -5
HINDI -
Why don't you make a new thread for this? This one's getting old.
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Post by Pugnox on Dec 3, 2003 9:00:00 GMT -5
HINDI - Why don't you make a new thread for this? This one's getting old. Agreed but one last (very off topic) point: I was reading the Indian epic "Ramayana" in both the original Sanskrit and a Hindi translation. At one point in the Hindi, the hero, Ram, began to be referred to with the adjective in Hindi for "blue" (eyed), while in the Sanskrit the dictionary gave a range of dark colors. I asked my Sanskrit teacher, a Jew, about this and he said that the Sanskrit word may refer to a color anywhere from dark blue (as with the indigo plant) to black. Now South Asian linguistings is a very politically-minded field. Many would say that it would be "racist" to say that Ram had dark blue eyes so in many English translations "black" is used to refer to his eye color. So, unless you can site the original Sanskrit when quoting Indian literature, it doesn't really matter in terms of providing evidence for or against any idea. By the way, the was god, Indra, was also referred to with this adjective referring to indigo blue. |
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Post by Melnorme on Dec 3, 2003 9:40:53 GMT -5
I don't doubt any hypothetical Aryan invaders would be a bit lighter than your average Indian, but it's far-fetched IMO to claim they were 'Nordic'. Remember even Afghans and Iranians seem 'white' and even 'blue-eyed' compared to your typical Sub-Continental.
I can definately imagine a man from Yemen considering a Syrian or Turk to be 'white', compared to himself.
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Post by HINDI on Dec 3, 2003 10:27:20 GMT -5
What do you mean 'a bit lighter' .Aryans were caucasian Meds and Slavs..genetics already proved this...There's dozens of pure whites in India..and no no nordic at all but still white..Didn't I post the Brunn type Brahmin redhead..that's a pure white..
There are millions of white Turks who says Turks aren't white..the Turkish people consists of Islamized Caucasians,Armenians and Slavic people all whites..
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