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Post by heydrich on Nov 2, 2005 9:55:05 GMT -5
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Post by Platypus on Nov 2, 2005 10:38:25 GMT -5
Apparently she descends from Lord Asquith former prime minister, but on her mother's side I think she has a mix of European elements and some Jewish.
as a Type she has Alpine or East Alpine trends, though with generalized mediterranean influence.
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Post by Trog on Nov 2, 2005 18:58:48 GMT -5
Apparently she descends from Lord Asquith former prime minister, but on her mother's side I think she has a mix of European elements and some Jewish. as a Type she has Alpine or East Alpine trends, though with generalized mediterranean influence. Jewish? No! Spanish? Yes! Her mother was 1/2 Spanish. Still I see nothing to suggest that Helen doesn't look English.
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Post by anodyne on Nov 2, 2005 19:26:15 GMT -5
She looks like an English "internet friend" that I have.
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Post by Mike the Jedi on Nov 2, 2005 19:47:30 GMT -5
She has a Beetlejuice face.
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Post by Crimson Guard on Nov 2, 2005 22:52:51 GMT -5
rather common looking
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Post by oubit on Nov 3, 2005 1:55:18 GMT -5
alpine + atlanto-med, more like French or Italian than English ladies.
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Post by Crimson Guard on Nov 3, 2005 2:36:25 GMT -5
No,Mainly Irish looking to me..
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Post by osservatore on Nov 3, 2005 15:11:59 GMT -5
Give her a tan and an aquiline nose (like mine) and you'll have my aunt Paola. That's the second aunt I found on this board!
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Post by Drooperdoo on Nov 4, 2005 10:10:07 GMT -5
The surname Bonham is an English corruption of the French surname "Bon-Homme," which translates as Good Man. So her ancestors on that side probably came over in 1066 with William the Conqueror.
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Post by redwing on Nov 4, 2005 12:35:33 GMT -5
Apparently she descends from Lord Asquith former prime minister, but on her mother's side I think she has a mix of European elements and some Jewish. as a Type she has Alpine or East Alpine trends, though with generalized mediterranean influence. Jewish? No! Spanish? Yes! Her mother was 1/2 Spanish. Still I see nothing to suggest that Helen doesn't look English. From Wikipedia: "Her maternal grandfather was a Spanish ambassador and a Catholic; her maternal grandmother came from a rich Austrian-based Jewish family, and had converted to Catholicism upon marrying her ambassador husband (despite the conversion, both Helena and her mother are considered Jewish)." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena_Bonham_CarterAnd from the Guardian: "When she first appeared, the press banged on her about her aristocratic English ancestry (her father is the son of Lady Violet Bonham Carter and grandson of Lord Asquith, the prime minster), but her looks come more from her mother's side, a mixture of Spanish, French, Czech and Austrian antecedents, all originally Jewish who converted to Catholicism at different times." film.guardian.co.uk/Feature_Story/Observer/0,4120,44062,00.html
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Post by Drooperdoo on Nov 4, 2005 13:36:57 GMT -5
Redwing, It was a cliche of 19th Century England that down-on-their-luck nobles married wealthy Jews to get money back. It was rampant in the time of H.G. Wells, who wrote about the phenomenon in several of his social novels. So it makes sense that Helena Bonham-Carter is related to English aristocracy on her paternal side and Jewish financiers [the Rothschilds] on her mother's side. That was the cliche: The hard-up aristocrat marrying the wealthy Jew's daughter to keep him in cigars, sports-cars and country homes. What's ironic in her genealogy is that she's related to BOTH Lady Asquith and famous Hebrew banking family, the Rothschilds. Lady Asquith tormented Baron Rothschild, making reference to his origins in the Middle East and never letting him forget his incongruity. She's remembered as one of the greatest wits of the time-period. From her autobiography comes this quote (where she relates an anecdote about her sister teasing Lord Rothschild:) "She had wonderful grace and less vanity than any one that ever lived; and her social courage was a perpetual joy. I heard her say to the late Lord Rothschild, one night at a dinner party: 'And do you still believe the Messiah is coming, Lord Natty?'"
Notice how she attributed "social courage" to her sister for reminding Rothschild that he was a Jew? Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha She'd roll over in her grave, doubtless, if she knew that she had an ancestor [in this case Helena Bonham-Carter] related to both herself and this same "shady Hebrew upstart".
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Post by ndrthl on Nov 4, 2005 15:46:23 GMT -5
The story of Aaron of Lincoln in Norman England has always amazed me. Walter Scott probably was inspired by him when he set jewish characters in Norman England in his masterpiece Ivanhoe (namely Isaac the Jew and his daughter Rebecca). Here goes the story of Abraham of Lincoln: "Aaron of Lincoln, English financier; born at Lincoln, England, about 1125; died 1186. He is first mentioned in the English pipe-roll of 1166 as creditor of King Henry II. for sums amounting to £616 12s. . (the equivalent of between $2 million and $10 million in 2005) in nine of the English counties. He conducted his business through agents, and sometimes in conjunction with Isaac, fil Joce; by these methods building up what was practically a great banking association that spread throughout England. He made a specialty of lending money for the purpose of building abbeys and monasteries. Among those built were the Abbey of St. Albans, Lincoln Minster, Peterborough Cathedral, and no less than nine Cistercian abbeys. They were all founded between 1140 and 1152, and at Aaron's death remained indebted to him in no less a sum than 6,400 marks (probably equal to $15 to $50 million in 2004). Some of these debts may, however, have been incurred by the abbeys in order to acquire lands pledged to Aaron. Thus the abbot of Meaux took over from Aaron lands pledged to the latter in the sum of 1,800 marks; Aaron at the same time promising to commute the debt for a new one of only 1,260 marks, which was paid off by the abbey. After Aaron's death the original deed for 1,800 marks was brought to light, and the king's treasury demanded from the abbey the missing 540 marks. This incident indicates how, on the one hand, Aaron's activity enabled the abbeys to get possession of the lands belonging to the smaller barons, and, on the other, how his death brought the abbeys into the king's power. Aaron not only advanced money on land, but also on corn, armor, and houses, and in this way acquired an interest in properties scattered through the eastern and southern counties of England. When he died, in 1186, Henry II. seized his property as the escheat of a Jewish usurer (see Usury), and the English crown thus became universal heir to his estate. The actual cash treasure accumulated by Aaron was sent over to France to assist Henry in his war with Philip Augustus, but the vessel containing it went down on the voyage between Shoreham and Dieppe. However, the indebtedness of the smaller barons and knights still remained, and fell into the hands of the king to the amount of £15,000 ($75,000, probably equal to $2,500,000 at the present day), owed by some four hundred and thirty persons distributed over the English counties.So large was the amount that a separate division of the exchequer was constituted, entitled "Aaron's Exchequer" (Madox, "History of the Exchequer," folio ed., p. 745), and was continued till at least 1201, that is, fifteen years later, for on the piperoll of that year most of the debts to Aaron (about £7,500) are recorded as still outstanding to the king, showing that only half the debts had been paid over by that time, though, on the death of Aaron, the payment of interest ceased automatically, since the king, as a Christian, could not accept usury. The house of Aaron of Lincoln still stands, and is probably the oldest private stone dwelling in England the date of which can be fixed with precision (before 1186). It is on the right-hand side of the Steep Hill of Lincoln, on the way up toward the cathedral, and is figured in Jacobs, l.c., opposite p. 91, and in "Tr. Jew. Hist. Soc. Eng.," iii., opposite p. 181 (where accurate details are given). Originally the house had no windows on the ground floor—an omission probably intended to increase the facilities for protection or defense. Aaron's significance is due to the fact that his career illustrates the manner in which the medieval Jewish communities could be organized into a banking association reaching throughout an entire country; while the ultimate fate of the wealth thus acquired shows that, in the last resort, the state was the arch-usurer and obtained the chief benefit from Jewish usury". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_of_Lincoln
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