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Post by k5125 on Sept 22, 2005 22:42:46 GMT -5
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Post by k5125 on Sept 22, 2005 22:49:58 GMT -5
I should mention, he has been to Israel, although he is an American Jew. He speaks fluent Hebrew. And he knows a little arabic and spanish too.
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Post by Agrippa on Sept 23, 2005 5:07:37 GMT -5
Pred. Gracilmediterranid with slight Orientalid admixture I'd say, at least going after this picture without profile. He could pass as Southern European for many regions in my opinion.
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Post by kornelius on Sept 26, 2005 15:39:46 GMT -5
yes, he looks like Italian, Spanish, Greek etc. actually, many times in my travels around the world i've met spanish people who i was sure they were Israelis.
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Post by k5125 on Sept 26, 2005 18:14:19 GMT -5
yes, he looks like Italian, Spanish, Greek etc. actually, many times in my travels around the world i've met spanish people who i was sure they were Israelis. Yeah, I agree with that. He looks more spanish and greek than he does orientaloid. I would classify him, and many other Israelis as armenoid+Atlantid.
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Post by yigal on Sept 26, 2005 18:19:00 GMT -5
my complexion is like that in the winter but a little "grayer" and less yellow when i shave where my beard would be is blueish shadow no matter if i shaved 2 mins ago is that normal lol
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Post by Yankel on Sept 26, 2005 18:32:51 GMT -5
From what I've seen, Spaniards and Greeks don't look that much alike, aside from having similar pigmentation. They do overlap sometimes, though. He would fit in better in Greece than Spain.
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Post by k5125 on Sept 26, 2005 19:24:46 GMT -5
Do you think this Jew looks Spanish? I think he could easily pass as spanish or middle eastern.
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Post by Educate Me on Sept 26, 2005 20:04:08 GMT -5
No, that jew doesnt look like a spaniard, the nose doesnt look spanish.
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Post by Yankel on Sept 26, 2005 20:04:27 GMT -5
Not really. There's even less overlap between Spain and the Middle East than Spain and Greece. Spain shares more phenotypically with France and even the UK.
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Post by Drooperdoo on Sept 26, 2005 21:14:26 GMT -5
Yankel's right: Iberians are extremely distant from other Mediterranean populations. Gone are the myths that they're close to Berbers or other Meds. They're more rightly an "Atlantid" race. Southern Spain, though, does have some exotic types. Famed poet Federico Garcia-Lorca said in his book The Poet in New York that he was fascinated by the similarity between the Jews in New York and Malaguenos he knew at home. They were remarkably similar to people he knew and loved in his own home-town. One wonders if Jews came away with more Iberian dna than is usually assumed. One study I saw said that Sephardic Jews cluster closer to Iberians and Russian and Polish Jews clustered closer to Arabs. I'd like to see more confirmation on that.
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Post by Yankel on Sept 26, 2005 23:12:34 GMT -5
I think that Sephardim from places like Netherlands and Gibraltar picked up more DNA from their initial host populations than the vast majority of Ashkenazi Jews (who are collectively* half-and-half). These communities were founded by "conversos" who returned to Judaism after they left Spain and Portugal. Let's not forget that when geneticists study, say, Cohanim, North African and Middle Eastern Jews get lumped together with European Sephardim under a supposedly monolithic "Sephardic" label. It's kind of ridiculous, as there is a difference between Middle Eastern/North African Jews and Euro-Sephardim. That difference being that the Sephardic Jews who left Spain for North Africa and the Middle East ended up mixing with Mizrahi Jews in their new countries. Even those who went to Greece ended up absorbing most of the Romaniote community, who are by far more Near Eastern than European, despite their "Hellenized" version of Judaism. According to Behar et al. 2003, Ashkenazi Cohanim have higher frequencies of haplogroup J than Sephardi Cohanim: *Collectively,, but in Western and Central Europe they are more Middle Eastern than anything
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Post by Yankel on Sept 26, 2005 23:46:48 GMT -5
These small genetic disparities are only relevant in a scientific context. The fact is that even the most mixed Polish Ashkenazi or Dutch Sephardi has retained a large percentage of their Middle Eastern ancestry (I'm just too PC to write out percentages.. it's too weird).
I should add that in my opinion the grouping of different _traditional_ Jewish groups according to their host population is no longer necessary. The diaspora as it was pre-Israel is over, and these labels only stand to divide Israeli and world Jewry.
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