Czekanowski's map

[Liquid Len]

As I wrote in other instances: Most racial maps are based on stature, CI and pigmentation. There are three notable exceptions: Lundman additionaly considered the height-length index and Coon the head size. Now, Czekanowski ignored the stature and included the face index and the nose index instead. Here is his result:



Most terms should be more or less clear. However: "Littoral Nordic" means Mediterranean comes second after Nordic. "Continental Nordic" means Alpine/Lapponoid comes second instead. And Subnordic means basically that Nordic and Alpine/Lapponoid are equally frequent.

[Platypus]

not a bad map,The mediterranean area is well represented, and there is an interesting new interpretation of the Baltic area, 'Ireland' is a bit obsolete since it doesnt acknowledge the Cro-magnid elements, unless 'atlantic' actually means it. note also the 'Eurafrican' type for Southern Portugal and S Sicily i think it could coincide with (lundmans?) South Mediterranid. I think you posted a pic of a 'S Mediterranid' some time ago, can you post it again here?

type 3 'Caucaso-Balkan' should be a Dinaric

[olympian]

not a bad map but the dinarics seem to have an inadequate representation (meaning their presence, together with alpines , along central europe )

and of course in italy and greece , the alpine and the mediterranean types are not as distinct in north-south(Italy) and west-east (Greece) polarizations as shown but more blended

[Liquid Len]

platypus said:

not a bad map,The mediterranean area is well represented, and there is an interesting new interpretation of the Baltic area, 'Ireland' is a bit obsolete since it doesnt acknowledge the Cro-magnid elements, unless 'atlantic' actually means it.

It looks like Czekanowski didn't have any category for Cromagnid or East Baltic. But his Lapponoid/Alpine category probably encompassed the Ladogan-like and reduced Baltid types.

platypus said:

I think you posted a pic of a 'S Mediterranid' some time ago, can you post it again here?

No, that wasn't me, sorry.

platypus said:

type 3 'Caucaso-Balkan' should be a Dinaric

I'd even say the whole Taurid group, including the Mtebids in the Caucasus and the Armenoids.

olympian said:

not a bad map but the dinarics seem to have an inadequate representation (meaning their presence, together with alpines , along central europe )

and of course in italy and greece , the alpine and the mediterranean types are not as distinct in north-south(Italy) and west-east (Greece) polarizations as shown but more blended

The dotted area (no. 9) doesn't mean "Alpine", but "totally mixed up".

But anyway, I don't think that there's such a strict correlation between Alpines and Dinarics as Coon suggested (and to whom you are probably alluding to). In particular because I don't adhere to Coon's mixture theory of Dinaric origins: The most extreme and typical examples of Dinarics can't be explained as a mixed form between Alpine and Mediterranean as they don't fit into the common spectrum of both forms. IMO really pure Dinarics are rarely found in western central Europe. You can often find big, convex noses there; sometimes also combined with an elongated, bony face or a slightly elevated vault line - but you rarely ever find examples with the typical very high vaulted, short, quite narrow, planoccipital head.

[Liquid Len]

Note how the Dinaric area extends much further southwards than in other maps. That's probably because Czekanowski didn't take stature into account, which is probably shorter there. Thus other anthropologists classified Southern Albania/NW-Greece as being more Alpine. But from the face and nose index it seems to be predominantly Dinaric, not Alpine.

What's negative: NW-France isn't that Nordic as the maps indicates. It's in fact in almost every aspect quite Alpine, but with a relatively light pigmentation.

[Educate Me]

Andalucia is EuroAfrican?

[Mike the Jedi]

Eurafrican = Saharid.

[Platypus]

The most extreme and typical examples of Dinarics can't be explained as a mixed form between Alpine and Mediterranean as they don't fit into the common spectrum of both forms.

I think Czekanowski's depiction of the Dinaric (Caucaso-Balkan) type is fundamentally correct (although I would have put a few more in the Tyrol, Italy and the Carpathians)

My view of the Dinarics is closest to Coon's, but I have two variations on it.

Basically the Dinaric is a disharmonic type, very brackycephalic, planoccipital 'dome' shaped skull and 'bullet' headed, with features usually close to Mediterraneans and Nordics.

A similar trend towards this diharmony can be seen on many other types as well and I call it (Dinaricization)
Therefore A Dinaricization can happen in most of Europe, while true Dinarics (high headed, planoccipital) are peculiar of certain areas only. This is only my interpretation but I found it very useful in classification.

I'll explain what I mean:
This man (Lithuanian) has a very round head and long face, metrically he is Dinaricized, though the broadness of the face and the general morphology point more to other types (Ladogan-E.Baltic) preventing him to be classified as a pure Dinaric.


Middle individual (Dutch) is too short/Wide faced, and slightly curvoccipital and low headed, the first and last individuals are more typical,

[Platypus]

De gaulle, on the whole Dinaricized, very tall and robust, seems to lack the flat occiput and 'dome' shaped head of pure Dinarics


NB some of the Dinarics by Coon belonged to cultures where they practiced cradling in infancy with possible increase of Brachicephaly, although perfect Dinarics can be found in the Tyrol where this practice is absent

[Liquid Len]

Yes, I've also had the idea that some or most of the Dinaric "influence" in western Europe is rather due to own, similar trends than to admixture.

platypus said:

NB some of the Dinarics by Coon belonged to cultures where they practiced cradling in infancy with possible increase of Brachicephaly, although perfect Dinarics can be found in the Tyrol where this practice is absent

True; and Albania and Romania have also some very classical specimens. I've posted some Romanians (various types) here:
dodona.proboards35.com/index.cgi?board=raceclass&action=display&thread=1128949542&page=1

[Crimson Guard]

Eurafrican = Saharid.

He puts that in Southern Sicily,hahaha...I strongly doubt he was ever their,just assigned that based on geography.Things like that always make me laugh...

[corda]

crimsonguard said:

Eurafrican = Saharid.

He puts that in Southern Sicily,hahaha...I strongly doubt he was ever their,just assigned that based on geography.Things like that always make me laugh...

There is also evidence from one sample (Semino et al. 1989) that in parts of Sicily, which was held by the Arabs between 825–1091 a.d., haplogroups L1 and L2 amount to ∼4%.
source:
Extensive Female-Mediated Gene Flow from Sub-Saharan Africa into Near Eastern Arab Populations
Martin Richards,1 Chiara Rengo,2,3 Fulvio Cruciani,2 Fiona Gratrix,4 James F. Wilson,5 Rosaria Scozzari,2 Vincent Macaulay,6 and Antonio Torroni7
www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1180338

[Crimson Guard]

There is also evidence from one sample (Semino et al. 1989>>

Your mis-leading,and that study is outdated and has since been corrected. Nowhere is Southern Sicily Eurafrican/Sarharid...thats ludicrous..

Read Here:

racialreality.blogspot.com/2005/03/study-clarification-iii.html

[corda]

crimsonguard said:

There is also evidence from one sample (Semino et al. 1989>>

Your mis-leading,and that study is outdated and has since been corrected. Nowhere is Southern Sicily Eurafrican/Sarharid...thats ludicrous..

Immunogenetics. 2004 Jan;55(10):674-81. Epub 2003 Dec 2. Related Articles, Links


Gm and Km immunoglobulin allotypes in Sicily.

Cerutti N, Dugoujon JM, Guitard E, Rabino Massa E.

Department of Animal and Human Biology, University of Turin, Via Accademia Albertina 17, 10123, Turin, Italy.

The aim of this study was to evaluate the intra- and inter-population variability of the Gm/Km system in the Madonie Mountains, one of the main geographical barriers in north-central Sicily. We analysed 392 samples: 145 from Alia, 128 from Valledolmo, 25 from Cerda and 94 from Palermo. Serum samples were tested for G1m (1,2,3,17), G2m (23), G3m (5,6,10,11,13,14,15,16,21,24,28) and Km (1) allotypes by the standard agglutination-inhibition method. We found the typical genetic patterns of populations in peripheral areas of the Mediterranean basin, with a high frequency of haplotypes Gm5*;3;23 and Gm5*;3;. The frequency of Gm21,28;1,17;. (about 16%) is rather high compared with other southern areas. Of great importance is the presence of the common African haplotype Gm 5*;1,17;., ranging in frequency from 1.56% at Valledolmo to 5.5% at Alia. The presence of this haplotype suggests past contacts with peoples from North Africa. The introduction of African markers could be due to the Phoenician colonization at the end of the 2nd millennium b.c. or to the more recent Arab conquest (8th-9th centuries a.d.).

[Crimson Guard]

lol read what I posted above.