brazen
Junior Member
Posts: 52
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Post by brazen on Dec 16, 2005 2:15:36 GMT -5
I read an article once that said the West coast is the part of the country with the lowest Church Attendance and the highest number of people who claim to have no religious beliefs. As a matter of fact I heard Washington state is the most non-religious State in the Union.
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Post by murphee on Dec 16, 2005 12:48:31 GMT -5
I have heard that also in regards to Washington and Oregon. But, it seems like Christianity is very much alive in the region; there are churches everywhere and I know a lot of churchgoers. However, when I visit Texas, it appears to be a more church-going state by far.
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Post by syriano on Dec 16, 2005 16:15:54 GMT -5
what type/sect of chrisians are those religous ones in southern usa?
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Post by Mike the Jedi on Dec 16, 2005 17:06:21 GMT -5
Baptist/Methodist mostly, I'd imagine.
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Post by osservatore on Dec 16, 2005 17:47:06 GMT -5
You can't force people to believe. I mean, you can force people to go to church, but not really believe.
Since various christian churches began to lose social control of the european peoples, european peoples followed their natural inclination: i.e., not going to Church, mainly. Obviously, there are also "believers" and "practitioners".
But I'd don't say we are facing a whitering of christianism in Europe; I'm not denying this aspect, but I'd say rather we faced a social enforcement to to "look christian" in the past age.
I can't speak for non catholic parts of europe; but if we are speaking about catholicism, I know what my grandmother believed, and it was very loosely tied to what priests were predicating in their churches. Going to Church, basically, was a matter to be accepted as part of the community, everyone had to go to Church at sunday, to be considered a good person, a social thing, you know, just like not spitting in the face of your neighbor.
But her- and everybody else's- personal beliefs were another stuff. She believed in saints, everyone with different powers and often with different sympathies or idiosyncrasies; she believd in more "Madonnas" (the Madonna of this sanctuary, the madonna of that other sancturay etc.)- actually, she believed that three of them were sisters! I can even tell the names, if you want. She barely took in consideration that, given the fact that the Madonna is the mother of Jesus, she has to be one person, and not many! etc. etc.
It was not my grandmother to be weird; it was exactly what country people believed. they believed that in fixed period of the years, certain rituals had to performed, in order to have good harvests, money etc.; eays things, like burning stuff, singing songs etc., but nothing "christian" at all. The believed in tons of legends and histories.
Now, rural society, with its old, pagan rites, had gone; OTH, no one is forced to go to Church to be considered a good person; so, no wonder people completely ignores Christianism!
Just take me: (but this is true for almost everyone I know, except two-three "real catholics"): I'm attracted by "pagan" rites of my grandparents, in a cultural sense, but they have nothing to do with my world; on the other hand, real catholic beliefs don't look more reasonable or less weird than my grandparents' rituals, and for sure look more costrictive and backwards (toward sexuality, e.g.)
So, being a religous kind of person, i was fascinating by buddhism, and interested in the old jewish roots of a part of my family (roots, by the way, that catholicism forcibly tried to estirpate...)
why I'd have to go to Church? My religious ideas have nothing to share with churches, put a part the fact that i love art; this doesn't make worst then any other...
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Post by Educate Me on Dec 16, 2005 21:19:14 GMT -5
it is very common for rural people to believe that the virgin of lourdes and the virgin of fatima are different virgins, they even have favorite virgins.
in latin america we have many indian rites, like the pachamama (mother earth) ceremony, which is aproved by the church under the name of some virgin, but the ritual of the indians has not changed at all.
I think the church doesnt educate people in the faith, when you go to mass it is all behave this way, behave that way, but the catechesis is bad and you end up with people with that kind of beliefs.
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Post by tonynatuzzi on Dec 16, 2005 22:20:53 GMT -5
On Hannity & Colmes they had this old religious couple saying that those who are non Christian will not go to heaven and will stay on earth to suffer(basically just a pc version of saying hell) and you could tell Colmes was uncomfortable with what they were saying in his presence since he's Jewish but I don't know if they knew or not that he's Jewish.
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Post by Crimson Guard on Dec 17, 2005 1:48:04 GMT -5
I always loved my confirmation pledge though..sounded and felt awesome like we where gonna go march off in some holy war,a Crusade or something ,and destroy the Dark lord/Prince of Darkness....Very Knight like!
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Post by osservatore on Dec 17, 2005 4:48:53 GMT -5
I think the church doesnt educate people in the faith, when you go to mass it is all behave this way, behave that way, but the catechesis is bad and you end up with people with that kind of beliefs. It's more than this. In fact, in the old times, catechesis was very strict and precise, yet formal, in Italy. Nonetheless, people, especially rural people but not only them, kept believing in rituals and "weird" ideas that, when investigated, appeared to be just old pagan rites, juts revisited (and not always!) with christian names. Rural people was just one step after syncretist rites like, say, Macumba or Candomblè or Santerìa- this step (i.e., elimination of old pagabn names) having been done IMO after the catholic counterreform or what they call it. But still many steps far from "true" catholicism. Ciao!
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Post by Ilmatar on Dec 17, 2005 10:17:28 GMT -5
I'm still a member of the Finnish Lutheran Church, even if I'd define myself agnostic. I go to church maybe once a year, for Christmas or/and some cerimony. I did the same when I lived in Italy, even though I'm not Catholic.
I used to be much more religious as a teenager, though. I even considered studying teology. However, even then I was much more drawn to the contemplative than the ritual side of the faith. I prayed a lot, read the Bible (actually all of it) and discussed the questions of faith with my friends (one of whom actually ended up being a Lutheran minister). The Lutheran rite left me cold. I definitely had my deepest religious experiences outside church.
My way of "worshipping" might seem very unorthodox to Catholics or any North American Christians. However, I think it's very much in line with the way Finns have practised the faith throughout centuries. The country has always been scarsely populated. Settlers in Northern and Central Finland often lived as far as 50-100 km from the nearest church. Even my grandmother lived 25 km from the nearest church as a child, and the journey there took 4 hours even if she could take the train in the middle. That meant people weren't able or even supposed to go to Church every Sunday to be good Christians. It was much more important to learn church's teachings and follow them. Praying was vital as well. There also was some "rebellion" amongst common people, who were searching for a more personal relationship to faith. There were several revivalist movements, which sometimes came into odds with the official church too, but which never truely parted from the church.
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