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Post by buddy on Dec 15, 2005 2:39:42 GMT -5
In regard to the aftermath of WWII and the establishment of Israel, it's quite true that this can't be ignored, and I was sure to mention this in my first post as it's one of the primary causes, though I think the conflict also partially reaches back to the Middle Ages. In any case, this has to be the most biting conflict we're facing nowadays. anyways, most ME people don't really dislike the christians, but rather specific countries/gov/people. Yes I do agree. Most people in both the ME and in the Western world rightly think that we should make peace. Unfortunately, only a few bad apples are needed to spoil the bunch. I take it you're of Syrian background. I'm aware that many Syrians/Lebanese are Christians, yet at least in Syria, the latest news suggests an overall negative view of the West, especially the U.S., on the part of its people. Would you happen to know if this is mainly just the Syrian government?
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Post by vgambler33 on Dec 15, 2005 3:03:05 GMT -5
[quote author=syriano board=philosophy thre
anyways, most ME people don't really dislike the christians, but rather specific countries/gov/people.
[/quote]
And the countries are?
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brazen
Junior Member
Posts: 52
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Post by brazen on Dec 15, 2005 3:36:03 GMT -5
I just want to say that I personally believe that much of the hatred that many Muslims bear towards Christians and Westerners is rather hypocritical and unfounded regardless of the Crusades. This is because the Crusades, although admittedly an aggressive act on the part of the Catholic Church, was largely a response to repeated Muslim invasions of Europe. Many Muslims seem to conveniently forget that they were the initial aggressors in the long-heated tensions between Christians and Muslims. With the Moors in Iberia, France, and Italy, and the Turks in Anatolia and the Balkans, Muslims were simply the ones who ignited the conflict. This is my personal opinion on the matter. Feel free to offer your own opinions, but I simply have no tolerance for those Muslims who despise anything Western or Christian because Muslims in fact initiated much of the tension that now exists. I don't hate Muslims either, in fact I have a couple friends who are Muslim, but I'm mainly referring to the ones who are anti-Western/Christian. I understand that the establishment of the state of Israel on the part of Western nations has also caused much tension as well, but these tensions in part undoubtedly go back to the Crusades. *BTW I also realize that many Christians have an unreasonable hatred of Muslims. What do you guys think? Although I'm not a big fan of organized Religion of any kind, I have to admit that Muslims are freakin hypocrites when it comes to this issue. They love to whine and cry about the Crusades but ignore the fact that the first conflict between Islam and the West started with the Moorish Invasion of Southern Europe. If they didn't want the Crusades then they should have never set foot on Christian lands.The Crusades were a direct retaliation against Muslim agression.
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Post by syriano on Dec 15, 2005 3:55:27 GMT -5
anyways, most ME people don't really dislike the christians, but rather specific countries/gov/people. Yes I do agree. Most people in both the ME and in the Western world rightly think that we should make peace. Unfortunately, only a few bad apples are needed to spoil the bunch. I take it you're of Syrian background. I'm aware that many Syrians/Lebanese are Christians, yet at least in Syria, the latest news suggests an overall negative view of the West, especially the U.S., on the part of its people. Would you happen to know if this is mainly just the Syrian government? yes I am Syrian and I live in M.E., not the west. In Syria 10% of the pop is Christian. Now Syria is on America's black list and America often wants to (and did) impose sanctions on Syria, plus with America's foreign policy you don't really expect the Syrians to like America. disliking America (mostly gov) doesn't really have anything to do with Christianity... plus there are plent of America hecks who aren't very friendly either... Syria is actually friends with alot of European countries (esp Eastern) and Latin Americans btw, many Christian countries dislike America too including European countries... oh, and your image of Islamic/middle eastern allience is way too exaturated. sadly, most of the "union" is just by name, the countries are way too different. for example you have the gulf countries together, you have Palestinians and Jordanians together, Syrians and Iranians (and Lebanese before), you have the Morroc countries together (I think), Turkey's best allience in the region is with Israel...etc all of these countries have different thoughts and ideologies
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Post by buddy on Dec 15, 2005 15:06:22 GMT -5
I just want to say that I personally believe that much of the hatred that many Muslims bear towards Christians and Westerners is rather hypocritical and unfounded regardless of the Crusades. This is because the Crusades, although admittedly an aggressive act on the part of the Catholic Church, was largely a response to repeated Muslim invasions of Europe. Many Muslims seem to conveniently forget that they were the initial aggressors in the long-heated tensions between Christians and Muslims. With the Moors in Iberia, France, and Italy, and the Turks in Anatolia and the Balkans, Muslims were simply the ones who ignited the conflict. This is my personal opinion on the matter. Feel free to offer your own opinions, but I simply have no tolerance for those Muslims who despise anything Western or Christian because Muslims in fact initiated much of the tension that now exists. I don't hate Muslims either, in fact I have a couple friends who are Muslim, but I'm mainly referring to the ones who are anti-Western/Christian. I understand that the establishment of the state of Israel on the part of Western nations has also caused much tension as well, but these tensions in part undoubtedly go back to the Crusades. *BTW I also realize that many Christians have an unreasonable hatred of Muslims. What do you guys think? Although I'm not a big fan of organized Religion of any kind, I have to admit that Muslims are freakin hypocrites when it comes to this issue. They love to whine and cry about the Crusades but ignore the fact that the first conflict between Islam and the West started with the Moorish Invasion of Southern Europe. If they didn't want the Crusades then they should have never set foot on Christian lands.The Crusades were a direct retaliation against Muslim agression. YES!! Thank you for understanding my point of view. It's not as if Muslims are totally innocent on this issue, far from it. To this day, Muslims are not very popular in southern Europe, and I certainly can't blame the people in those countries for feeling this way.
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Post by buddy on Dec 15, 2005 15:21:17 GMT -5
Yes I do agree. Most people in both the ME and in the Western world rightly think that we should make peace. Unfortunately, only a few bad apples are needed to spoil the bunch. I take it you're of Syrian background. I'm aware that many Syrians/Lebanese are Christians, yet at least in Syria, the latest news suggests an overall negative view of the West, especially the U.S., on the part of its people. Would you happen to know if this is mainly just the Syrian government? yes I am Syrian and I live in M.E., not the west. In Syria 10% of the pop is Christian. Now Syria is on America's black list and America often wants to (and did) impose sanctions on Syria, so you don't really expect the Syrians to like America. disliking America (mostly gov) doesn't really have anything to do with Christianity... plus there are plent of America hecks who aren't very friendly either... Syria is actually friends with alot of European countries (esp Eastern) and Latin Americans btw, many Christian countries dislike America too including European countries... oh, and your image of Islamic/middle eastern allience is way too exaturated. most of the "union" is just by name, but the countries are way too different. for example you have the gulf countries together, you have Palestinians and Jordanians together, Syrians and Iranians (and Lebanese before), you have the Morroc countries together (I think), Turkey's best allience in the region is with Israel...etc all of these countries have different thoughts and ideologies Although sanctions on Syria shouldn't be expected to raise their opinions on Americans, a government that has been known to harbor terrorists is not exactly free of all guilt. And no I'm not a fan of George W. Bush either, but that's a different matter entirely. In regard to Christian nations disliking America, this is true, though the majority does not feel this way, especially in Europe. The only such nations which seem to have a lower opinion of us are France, Germany, and certain eastern European nations.
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Post by syriano on Dec 15, 2005 17:20:26 GMT -5
yes I am Syrian and I live in M.E., not the west. In Syria 10% of the pop is Christian. Now Syria is on America's black list and America often wants to (and did) impose sanctions on Syria, so you don't really expect the Syrians to like America. disliking America (mostly gov) doesn't really have anything to do with Christianity... plus there are plent of America hecks who aren't very friendly either... Syria is actually friends with alot of European countries (esp Eastern) and Latin Americans btw, many Christian countries dislike America too including European countries... oh, and your image of Islamic/middle eastern allience is way too exaturated. most of the "union" is just by name, but the countries are way too different. for example you have the gulf countries together, you have Palestinians and Jordanians together, Syrians and Iranians (and Lebanese before), you have the Morroc countries together (I think), Turkey's best allience in the region is with Israel...etc all of these countries have different thoughts and ideologies Although sanctions on Syria shouldn't be expected to raise their opinions on Americans, a government that has been known to harbor terrorists is not exactly free of all guilt. sorry buddy, but that's a typical American answer anways carry on...
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Post by Jack Reed on Dec 15, 2005 21:15:25 GMT -5
Buddy's theory is identical to my theory. It's obvious that this situation predates the restoration of Israel in 1948. The roots go back to the time when Muslim armies tried to conquer and convert Christian Europe. The modern Muslim extremists have the same attitude as their predecessors. Suicide bombers remind me of the Hashashin who were brainwashed and drugged in order to become killers. September 11, 2001 was the anniversary of the defeat of the Ottoman Empire on September 11, 1683. They never recovered from this defeat at the gates of Vienna, and it changed the course of history. Christian Europe never had to worry about a Muslim conquest again.(?)
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Post by klabauter on Dec 21, 2005 4:41:55 GMT -5
Well to tell you the truth their are a lot of Arab Christians who have sympathy with political Islam. The reason for this is pretty simple in many Christian eyes the Pan-Arabism movement that was also formed by them simply has failed to unite Arabs and to fight and drive back the Jews. So for many Christians especially Palestinians Political Islam is the only thing that is left to fight the Jews and drive the American influence in the Middle East off.
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