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Post by Italian Stallion on Dec 5, 2004 21:21:18 GMT -5
Islam says that Jesus was no more than a prophet, and that he was less important than Mohammed. At the core, should christians be upset that Islam basically is demoting Jesus to "runner up" status in God's/Allah Spiritual Hierarchy?
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Post by vela on Dec 5, 2004 22:57:42 GMT -5
Islam says that Jesus was no more than a prophet, and that he was less important than Mohammed. At the core, should christians be upset that Islam basically is demoting Jesus to "runner up" status in God's/Allah Spiritual Hierarchy? What do you think, luchluchluch? Are you insulted? |
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lamda
Junior Member
Use the source Luke! Use the source!
Posts: 79
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Post by lamda on Dec 6, 2004 3:59:41 GMT -5
Islam says that Jesus was no more than a prophet, and that he was less important than Mohammed. At the core, should christians be upset that Islam basically is demoting Jesus to "runner up" status in God's/Allah Spiritual Hierarchy? Why should they? Every religion has its basic, fundamental beliefs. Don't Jews believe that Jesus was nothing more than a prophet (amongst other things)? What do Catholics believe about Mohammed, or Buddha? Should people following different religions feel insulted just because someone believes something different? Most religions have been "watered down" in the minds of westerners as they educate themselves in areas other than religion. My personal opinion on your question is no. We should not be offended, although extremists exist everywhere and they are most dangerous when they are powered by their religion (e.g. I'm a muslim, kill all Christian believers; I'm a Christian believer kill all Jews etc. etc.) However, feel free to feeling offended by these extremist groups! |
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Post by Springa on Dec 6, 2004 6:25:58 GMT -5
I don't even think Jews see Jesus as a prophet. Not that I care, though... Why should they? Every religion has its basic, fundamental beliefs. Don't Jews believe that Jesus was nothing more than a prophet (amongst other things)? What do Catholics believe about Mohammed, or Buddha? Should people following different religions feel insulted just because someone believes something different? Most religions have been "watered down" in the minds of westerners as they educate themselves in areas other than religion. My personal opinion on your question is no. We should not be offended, although extremists exist everywhere and they are most dangerous when they are powered by their religion (e.g. I'm a muslim, kill all Christian believers; I'm a Christian believer kill all Jews etc. etc.) However, feel free to feeling offended by these extremist groups! |
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Post by alex221166 on Dec 6, 2004 9:11:42 GMT -5
Islam says that Jesus was no more than a prophet, and that he was less important than Mohammed. At the core, should christians be upset that Islam basically is demoting Jesus to "runner up" status in God's/Allah Spiritual Hierarchy? Islam adopted many things from Judaism, Christianity and believe it or not, even from Arab politheism. The purpose of adopting parts of the Jewish or Christian religious tradition is obvious: to allow Christians and Jews to have something to "grab on to", and then adopt Islam as the ultimate truth. Christianity sort of did the same thing to Judaism and to Greco-Roman politheism. Some people say that the Marianism (cult of the Virgin Mary) which is very present in southern Europe, can be tracked to the cult of Isis and to the cult of the Phoenician goddess Tanit. We all borrow something from someone else. So no, Islam is not an insult to Christianity. "A threat" would be a much more suited choice of words. |
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Post by nordicyouth on Dec 6, 2004 16:10:40 GMT -5
It's not Islam as an abstract religion that's important, it's how it plays out in the world. Obviously, Islam has severe Arabic socio-cultural overtones and would have been very different had it been founded in say Europe or China.
Despite what the 'Quran' claims, Islam today, COLLECTIVELY, is a militant religion whose goal is to expand, even at the expense of other cultures and religions. Muslims want the wealth that liberal (Western) societies have, but they cannot do it themselves, because their society inhibits the transition to a competition-based economy.
Islam, as it is used today, is an insult to Western democracy and to anyone trying to raise the overall living standards of humanity. Christian fundamentalism works the same way except that it has to work around Western democratic institutions, and so is hopefully stripped of its fangs.
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Post by vela on Dec 6, 2004 16:32:37 GMT -5
Any person, of any religious or ideological sign, that promotes a manicheistic view of life can be insulting to others.
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Post by Italian Stallion on Dec 6, 2004 17:09:36 GMT -5
What do you think, luchluchluch? Are you insulted? I dislike Islam for many reasons.... i.e. the fact that Mohammed only started the religion to marry as many women as he wished and lead a "Trump" lifestyle;how Islam spread like wild-fire in the first 50 years of its existence via the sword. Even if Jesus wasn't divine, these things couldn't be said about him. Even though Christians did kill many in the name of Jesus a millenium after his death, these weren't by the direct decrees of Jesus himself. Judaism don't offend me for two reasons: 1) they didn't accept Jesus, but they will accept him when he eventually returns. 2) They didn't replace Jesus with an obvious Fraud like Mohammed. Had Islam had a truely Pious man who led a peacefully and righteous lifestyle like Jesus, or even someone like Buddha did... then I wouldn't see it as an insult. |
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Post by Igu on Dec 7, 2004 8:47:09 GMT -5
I dislike Islam for many reasons.... i.e. the fact that Mohammed only started the religion to marry as many women as he wished and lead a "Trump" lifestyle;how Islam spread like wild-fire in the first 50 years of its existence via the sword. Even if Jesus wasn't divine, these things couldn't be said about him. Even though Christians did kill many in the name of Jesus a millenium after his death, these weren't by the direct decrees of Jesus himself. Judaism don't offend me for two reasons: 1) they didn't accept Jesus, but they will accept him when he eventually returns. 2) They didn't replace Jesus with an obvious Fraud like Mohammed. Had Islam had a truely Pious man who led a peacefully and righteous lifestyle like Jesus, or even someone like Buddha did... then I wouldn't see it as an insult. -Jesus was such a big offender and blasphemer, those who should be offended are the Jews... certainly not christians by muslims! -If we compare the biblical prophecies with history, I would nominate Sharon as the true messiah. |
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Post by MC anunnaki on Dec 9, 2004 0:32:46 GMT -5
As an atheist, I consider all religions to be an insult to the thinking mind. However, the big difference between Islam and other religions is that Islams is more 'worldly' than 'spiritual' and it has a political agenda. Separation of church and state will never be possible with Islam since the religion itself forbids any such separation. The only way for Middle Eastern Muslims to wake up from their Islamic delusions is to either convert to less political, more spiritual religion (haha, fat chance) or just dump the crap overboard alltogether and turn to a more secular worldview. Islam has been standing in the same place (and development in the Middle East with it) for so long and I don't see how there can be any technological and intellectual progress in the Middle East as long as people cling to it like it's the only truth.
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Post by Dienekes on Dec 9, 2004 3:17:34 GMT -5
Muslims hold that Jesus was a prophet, and also respect his Mother. In a sense that's better than the Jewish view of Jesus as a false prophet, but that does not alter the fact that they both Jews and Muslims reject the divinity of Jesus, hence they are both incompatible with Christianity.
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Post by vela on Dec 9, 2004 9:07:20 GMT -5
I like to respect other’s decision to have a religion or not, just as I like to be respected for the same. I think I understand your statement above in the sense that having been endowed with the power to reason we should cling to some ridiculous beliefs and all kind of weird superstitions. However, I feel we shouldn’t be insulted but be tolerant. After all, were not born with a “thinking mind”. I mean literally, newborn babies have their brains underdeveloped and are unable of rational thinking in the philosophical sense. It takes an individual years of education, of experience, to finally start making use of his powers of reason (there are exceptions of course). In that intervening lapse since we’re born to the moment when we are able to reason, many things happen that shape the way we interpret the world around us. To the mind of a child that interpretation is fundamentally based on what his parents and other surrounding adults inculcate him. Even if you wanted to teach your infant child about quantum mechanics, string theory and stellar evolution, he wouldn’t understand and it would be just as telling him a fairy tale. The role of religion at this stage is (or should be) to initiate us into the notion of living in harmony, to teach us all the values and principles that we’ve come to accept as necessary to live together in peace. These thing we can learn at an early age. Wouldn’t it be cruel to deprive our children at bed time of hearing from our lips a good allegoric story or even a fairy tale? Does this sound like a fairy tale? Welcome to the real world! How more distorted can the religions of the world get? Who is to blame for all the religious mess we’re witnessing and have witnessed throughout the history of mankind? I’d say religious leaders for the most part. Those that have taken the spiritual teachings of the saints and illuminati and turn them into political instruments to drive a wedge between mother and daughter, between father and son, between brother and sister. It is such a dilemma! When we as adults are unable to wean ourselves from our childish conceptions of the world and the universe that were instilled in us in our tender years, we relinquish our most valuable innate gift of freewill and become soulless pawns in the power struggles of callous and insensible leaders. What a pity! Is there hope? I think there is but not before much suffering of a lot of people worldwide. It seems that we, and I mean mankind as a whole, never learn except by trial and error. Why is death necessary to justify life?  |
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Post by Igu on Dec 9, 2004 17:26:01 GMT -5
the big difference between Islam and other religions is that Islams is more 'worldly' than 'spiritual' and it has a political agenda. Do you think that worshipping a cubic stone in arabia is more worldly? |
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Post by MC anunnaki on Dec 12, 2004 9:37:21 GMT -5
Do you think that worshipping a cubic stone in arabia is more worldly? No.  I never wrote that all aspects of Islam are worldly. Prayer isn't very worldly, neither is worshipping a black cubic-shaped stone. But the political agenda that Islam has, the desire to merge state and church, the punishment of death to all those who leave the religion, those are worldly aspects of the religion. |
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Post by MC anunnaki on Dec 12, 2004 9:41:44 GMT -5
I like to respect other’s decision to have a religion or not, just as I like to be respected for the same. I think I understand your statement above in the sense that having been endowed with the power to reason we should cling to some ridiculous beliefs and all kind of weird superstitions. However, I feel we shouldn’t be insulted but be tolerant. After all, were not born with a “thinking mind”. I fully respect those who chose to be religious and who don't try and shove it down my throat. Also, in a secular state, we have freedom of belief which I in no way want to take away. However, any religious person who wants to merge church and state on the expense of the non-religious ones will receive neither tolerance nor respect from me. A religious person's right are (mostly) protected in a secular state, but it's rarely the other way around. I've never understood Muslims in Sweden who think the state should be religious and who want the Sharia law to replace the secular law. If so, what the hell are they doing in Sweden? Why not head back to whatever Muslim country they came from in the first place? It just doesn't make sense. I prefer to keep a very big distance between myself and these kind of people. |
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I never wrote that all aspects of Islam are worldly. Prayer isn't very worldly, neither is worshipping a black cubic-shaped stone. But the political agenda that Islam has, the desire to merge state and church, the punishment of death to all those who leave the religion, those are worldly aspects of the religion.