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Post by Jack Reed on Feb 6, 2006 0:07:35 GMT -5
Christians don't riot when Jesus is mocked and ridiculed on a regular basis. Jews don't threaten people when others draw insulting caricatures of them. The Muslims, who were understandably offended, should express their views in a peaceful way. They have a right to free speech just like the cartoonists have a right to "free art", but the cartoonists shouldn't be threatened with bodily harm. These aren't equatable though. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Muslims are more or less required by their religion to act like this. Christianity on the other hand prohibits things like threatening another 9-11. I think that it's a valid comparison. It demonstrates the marked differences in both the actions and the reactions from adherents of different religions. For example, Muslims have no problem when artists insult Jews. That's not the same as insulting Moses, but it does illustrate the hypocrisy inherent in their selective outrage.
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Post by Jack Reed on Feb 6, 2006 0:20:37 GMT -5
Did the Muslims protest and riot when their alleged brethren murdered children in Beslan? How about after the countless other crimes that Muslim extremists committed? Yeah, I know that not all Muslims are extremists, but their selective outrage is quite revealing. They don't seem to act like savages, rampaging through the streets, hurting innocent people, when the extremists murder people in their name.
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Post by nymos on Feb 6, 2006 0:50:10 GMT -5
"A Muslim religious organisation in Denmark, Islamisk Trossamfund, played a large part in bringing attention to the cartoons to Muslims of the Middle East during a recent tour; allegedly, it added three additional images to the group and claimed that they had been published in Jyllands-Posten as well. These three images are all considerably more obscene than the published cartoons, and none of them had previously been published by Jyllands-Posten or any other mainstream media outlet. On February 1 BBC World aired a story showing one of these three images, and incorrectly claimed that it had been published in Jyllands-Posten.
Akhmad Akkari, spokesman of the Danish Muslim organisations which organised the tour, claimed to be unaware of the origin of the three pictures, claiming that they had been sent by unknown persons to Muslims in Denmark. Arkkari purported to justify the use of the three drawings as providing "insight in how hateful the atmosphere in Denmark is towards Muslims." However, when Akkari was asked if the Muslims who had received these pictures could be interviewed, Akkari refused to reveal their identities."
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Post by asdf on Feb 6, 2006 3:01:29 GMT -5
All I'm saying is this isn't a fair statement:
I mean, it is, but should they do that, they wouldnt' be good Muslims. Islam at its most basic is as much the problem or more as Muslims or their culture(s). It's not really extremism which is the problem at all - it's the core beliefs.
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Post by nockwasright on Feb 6, 2006 4:48:04 GMT -5
no need to reply, I don't really care what you believe.... Then start your own blog. This is a forum.
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Post by syriano on Feb 6, 2006 5:10:44 GMT -5
^ it came out wrong. I am trying to leave this thread, and I (think) know your stand on these issues
I respect your honesty though
nymos can you post a link to your last statement?
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Post by nockwasright on Feb 6, 2006 6:16:57 GMT -5
Ok
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Post by Ilmatar on Feb 6, 2006 7:07:41 GMT -5
I've been called a "softie liberal", because I've always believed in dialogue with the so-called Muslim World. But when I saw an angry mob attacking the Danish embassy first in Damascus and then in Beirut I just snapped. How can any government wanting to be part of the international comunity let this happen ?
The events that have taken place lately have convinced me too of the impossibility of any dialogue between the so-called Muslim World and the so-called Western World. The vast majority of the people living in the Muslim World just don't care about our opinions or show any respect towards our way of life. They obviously don't understand or even want to understand where we are coming from. They don't understand the freedom of press, the fact that we do have a press which is autonomous from the state. They just don't reason like we do.
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Post by syriano on Feb 6, 2006 8:22:11 GMT -5
yes you are right we don't think alike. religion is not a joke for us
bottom line is, if you expect muslims to accept their religion being mocked in a freedom of press excuse (more like freedom to insult), then it wont happen... some people could've reacted more wisely, but that's another issue... not to mention, there are plenty of things not allowed in western press, no? forget about jews. would it be ok to make a cartoon showing some white guy ordering a black guy to go pick cotton?
I hear in Denemark you are not allowed to mock the queen?
there have been cartoons making fun of extremists before like osama I believe, but to target the prophet, you get all muslims angry (extremist or normal)
lastly, I don't understand how the "christians" in your countries are so ok with making fun of Jesus
it's nothing to be proud of really....
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Post by Ilmatar on Feb 6, 2006 9:56:18 GMT -5
I understand the outrage. I don't understand the reactions. In a Western Society outraged party would have probably raised a law suit, not gone to burn flags and foreign embassies. Prophany is a criminal offence here in Finland. The editor of the Jyllandsk Posten could be trialed here. SAince Nordic systems tend to be very much alike, I guess it's a criminal offence in Denmark too. Why didn't the Muslims in Denmark just sue people who really did offend them instead of attacking a government (remember freedom of the press) which didn't have anything to do with the drawings? That's the question.
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Post by jam on Feb 6, 2006 15:12:59 GMT -5
I understand the outrage. I don't understand the reactions. In a Western Society outraged party would have probably raised a law suit, not gone to burn flags and foreign embassies. Prophany is a criminal offence here in Finland. The editor of the Jyllandsk Posten could be trialed here. SAince Nordic systems tend to be very much alike, I guess it's a criminal offence in Denmark too. Why didn't the Muslims in Denmark just sue people who really did offend them instead of attacking a government (remember freedom of the press) which didn't have anything to do with the drawings? That's the question. Actually, they did. However, the case was dismissed locally. "They" claimed they appealed to a higher court, but the court never received any appeal, so thats confusing. It would have been interesting to follow a trial case. If the Danish Muslim community really want the cartoonists or the paper sued/trialled, they could. Our government cannot sue/trial anyone, according to our law. PS. I think you're not allowed to insult the queen, but there's been a lotta parody of her all the time. This has something to do with the fact that we're a constitutional monarchy, and that's the law here. PPS. and we certainly don't want foreign countries (In this case the entire Muslim world) to decide what our constitution should say or not say. I think they're trying to pressure our government to ignore our constitution, just to please them.
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Post by annienormanna on Feb 6, 2006 15:16:28 GMT -5
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Melani2333
Full Member
http://www.livingwaters.com
Posts: 194
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Post by Melani2333 on Feb 6, 2006 15:56:48 GMT -5
The USA is just trying to look better w/ Muslims because of "collateral damage" <---- military term in Iaq and Afghanstan. Believe you me, the average American is at all of this nonesense and overreaction. It was a cartoon, people. Move on......
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Melani2333
Full Member
http://www.livingwaters.com
Posts: 194
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Post by Melani2333 on Feb 6, 2006 16:09:35 GMT -5
I would like to see all European countries organize protest and burn copies of the Quran to show solidarity with the Danish government and people. I think the U.S. Canada and Australia should do this as well. This is wrong. I had my hang ups with Islam until I learned more about it from a Muslim who was patient enough to teach me some things about it and I can its nothing more than religious bogotry to do what you just suggested. The papers did it on purpose, and those societies must ask why? That is for them to decide..... And the US has tons of Internet sources with the cartoons anyway. No papers have to risk "offending" any readers... God/Jesus/Christianity is lampooned all of the time in America, but people here are civilized. They do not burn down buildings in protest, they write letters, call, or cancel their memberships/subscriptions, etc. Talk about over reacting..... Muslims are not worshipping the One true God (Jesus) and they show this by their very actions, amongst other things like irrational hatred for the Jews. They show whose children they really are. Jesus said he who hates his brother is a murderer and no murder has any inheritance in the kingdom of God. P.S. We will also be like the Angels who ARE NOT given in marriage. So no virgins for you....( a'la Soup Nazi) ;D
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Post by annienormanna on Feb 6, 2006 16:20:04 GMT -5
P.S. We will also be like the Angels who ARE NOT given in marriage. So no virgins for you....( a'la Soup Nazi) ;D Didn't I see your sig file on a Food Drop pallette in Dharfor? Black Hawk Down! We got Black Hawk Down!
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