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Post by Ponto Hardbottle on May 15, 2005 23:26:23 GMT -5
Europeans are just types of caucasoids not the caucasoid type mould that all the others have to fit in. There are a range of phenotypes all of which are equally caucasoid. The Eurocentric notion that certain European caucasoids are the standard of caucasianness is racist and ludicrous. Anyway who appointed them as the epitomes of caucasianness? India is where races have mixed, so there is a range of racial types and subtypes which approximate caucasoids with the Tribals, the Untouchables and certain Southern Indian australoid mixes being on the periphery of the caucasoid race and the Northern Indian types being well within the caucasoid race. The same can be said of North Africa and those parts of Asia where caucasoids and mongoloids come into close contact. If the folks in your neighborhood think the way they do, let them. It just shows their age, knowledge and lack of interest in semantics of their language. It may sound odd to you, but I never think of my racial identity as White or even caucasoid. I think of myself as European. My birth certificate just has my name, birth dates, parents names etc nothing about race. In fact I have no document whatsoever stating my race.
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Post by mike2 on May 15, 2005 23:38:16 GMT -5
Who are you talking to, Ponto?
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Post by MC anunnaki on May 15, 2005 23:39:27 GMT -5
My brother has brown skin (not Veddoid brown, but still brown) and he's Caucasian. No, my mother did not cheat with any mailman!
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Post by joton on May 16, 2005 1:15:24 GMT -5
they probably dont know any better. all they see is black and white.
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Post by kir on May 16, 2005 2:03:01 GMT -5
Mike, or anyone, how can you be sure that:
1) Veddoids are not related to Caucasians.
or 2) The population that live in India are not a distinct race of their own, as their mtDNA seem to show.
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Post by k5125 on May 16, 2005 2:37:07 GMT -5
What race are the Indians in this picture? Their skin is black...about as black as the average african american. The boys in the back right corner look even darker than black people. imagesoftheworld.org/India/India018.jpg
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Post by kir on May 16, 2005 2:50:55 GMT -5
What race are the Indians in this picture? Their skin is black...about as black as the average african american. The boys in the back right corner look even darker than black people. imagesoftheworld.org/India/India018.jpgHe is a veddoid, like everyone else in India, and even the girl in the front. He is darker then the rest of the people, not because he is a different race, but because there is a high diversity in the Indian population. I have seen some extremely pale NE, but I would never imply that they are a different race. Same thing goes for the kid.
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Post by Josh on May 16, 2005 2:51:20 GMT -5
Still, many black-skinned Indians, whatever their actual racial makeup is, seem to have a Caucasoid facial structure. I'm actually not sure how many Indians are as I described, but still, I have seen pictures of Indians and other South Asians with very dark skin but also have an apparently predominantly Caucasoid facial structure. For instance, here is a Sri Lankan Dravidian from the old RM site. I'd say he looks mixed, but I think he got his facial features mostly from his Caucasoid ancestry, and his pigmentation mostly from his Australoid ancestry.
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Post by kir on May 16, 2005 3:13:40 GMT -5
I'm actually not sure how many Indians are as I described, but still, I have seen pictures of Indians and other South Asians with very dark skin but also have an apparently predominantly Caucasoid facial structure. For instance, here is a Sri Lankan Dravidian from the old RM site. I'd say he looks mixed, but I think he got his facial features mostly from his Caucasoid ancestry, and his pigmentation mostly from his Australoid ancestry. Funny that you say that because genetically speaking, Indians only have 10% WE mtDNA. Genetically, they seem to be of another race, yet externally they appear Caucasian. Veddoids are a good candidate for a dark Caucasoid, if such a thing exist.
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Post by Josh on May 16, 2005 3:20:35 GMT -5
Funny that you say that because genetically speaking, Indians only have 10% WE mtDNA. Genetically, they seem to be of another race, yet externally they appear Caucasian. Veddoids are a good candidate for a dark Caucasoid, if such a thing exist. I'll say upfront that I know very little about Indian genetics, and I'm not ashamed to be informed or corrected by those who know more about them. On the original topic, I'd guess that the darkest unambiguous Caucasoids come from the Arabian Peninsula.
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Post by topdog on May 16, 2005 3:25:03 GMT -5
I'm actually not sure how many Indians are as I described, but still, I have seen pictures of Indians and other South Asians with very dark skin but also have an apparently predominantly Caucasoid facial structure. For instance, here is a Sri Lankan Dravidian from the old RM site. I'd say he looks mixed, but I think he got his facial features mostly from his Caucasoid ancestry, and his pigmentation mostly from his Australoid ancestry. If he has Australoid and 'Caucasian' ancestry then he's not a Caucasian. I've seen one genetic study where Indians were clearly differentiated from Caucasians.
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Post by kir on May 16, 2005 3:33:37 GMT -5
If he has Australoid and 'Caucasian' ancestry then he's not a Caucasian. I've seen one genetic study where Indians were clearly differentiated from Caucasians. Same here. Do you think that two populations can evolve independently and have almost the same physical characteristics?
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Post by Josh on May 16, 2005 3:36:51 GMT -5
If he has Australoid and 'Caucasian' ancestry then he's not a Caucasian. I've seen one genetic study where Indians were clearly differentiated from Caucasians. I don't disagree. I was just trying to find an approximation of what a very dark skinned Caucasoid might look like. As I said in my next post, I think that the darkest genuine Caucasoids are from the Arabian Peninsula.
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Post by kir on May 16, 2005 3:42:24 GMT -5
I'll say upfront that I know very little about Indian genetics, and I'm not ashamed to be informed or corrected by those who know more about them. On the original topic, I'd guess that the darkest unambiguous Caucasoids come from the Arabian Peninsula. Compared with Mongoloid, Negroid, and Caucasian, South Asian have their own type. M is most abundant at 60%, with R at 15% and U2 at 15% on average, but it varies. The other 10% is attributed to WE loan form the Middle East. www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2156/5/26/figure/F11img125.echo.cx/my.php?image=worldm9ga.jpg
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Post by topdog on May 16, 2005 3:45:37 GMT -5
I don't disagree. I was just trying to find an approximation of what a very dark skinned Caucasoid might look like. As I said in my next post, I think that the darkest genuine Caucasoids are from the Arabian Peninsula. Here is that citation from that study I was referring to, the author indirectly differentiates Indians from Caucasoids by the way he words his comment: "Haplogroup U has been reported as the second most common haplogroup in Europe22. Kivisild et al.23 have reported its presence in west Eurasian and Indian populations. Hence it may serve as a good marker for identifying Caucasoid admixture in Indian populations." Mitochondrial DNA diversity among five tribal populations of southern India
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