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Post by Salvador on May 8, 2005 17:19:58 GMT -5
Is it true that the North-Italians generally view the South Italians in a negative way?
I am curious as to what level this statement is a myth or reality.
I am also curious if South Italians have the same feeling about their Northern countrymen.
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Post by fabbrice on May 8, 2005 17:37:24 GMT -5
it is quite true, at least for some of them... There is a racist political party (liga nord : close to facists) who ask for independance of northern Italy, because they think that they pay to much taxes for a south that they consider lazy, poor and mafioso.
O fcourse this is not thrue for all northern italians. A lot of them like southern italians and a lot of them are of southern italian origins - or mixed
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Post by Crimson Guard on May 8, 2005 17:40:21 GMT -5
Liga Nord sounds like a bunch of traitors...They are a disgrace...
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Post by buddyrydell on May 8, 2005 19:49:38 GMT -5
The Lega Nord is in a fantasy world in that they believe (falsely) that they are descended from Germanic Lombards whereas southern Italians are the mixed descendants of North Africans from the Moorish invasions. This is despite the fact that both northern and southern Italians are scarcely distinguishable physically and share the same ancient Paleolithic and Neolithic ancestry that gave rise to such populations as the Etruscans and Romans. They hate southern Italians as well as any immigrant population in Italy (mostly North Africans and Sub-Saharan Africans).
They're basically the remnants of the Fascist movement in Italy.
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Post by alexandrian on May 8, 2005 20:03:42 GMT -5
The Lega Nord is in a fantasy world in that they believe (falsely) that they are descended from Germanic Lombards whereas southern Italians are the mixed descendants of North Africans from the Moorish invasions. This is despite the fact that both northern and southern Italians are scarcely distinguishable physically and share the same ancient Paleolithic and Neolithic ancestry that gave rise to such populations as the Etruscans and Romans. They hate southern Italians as well as any immigrant population in Italy (mostly North Africans and Sub-Saharan Africans). They're basically the remnants of the Fascist movement in Italy. Was the fascist movement anti-South? Speaking of immigrants, I read that there are more Egyptian-owned businesses in Milan than any other foreign ethnic group. I believe Filipinos came next. I don't think the African (Northwest or sub-saharan) immigrants own much at all.
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Post by NunzioGuido on May 8, 2005 20:44:41 GMT -5
Many Northern Italians think they are Nordic/Germanic even though most Northern Italians don't exactly resemble Norweigans.Most Northern Italians still look closer to Southern Italians than they do to Scandinavians.
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Post by nockwasright on May 9, 2005 1:56:53 GMT -5
Buddy: Fascism was definitely not anti- South. Mussolini was from a Northern region (Emilia Romagna) but Fascism exalted above all Rome (all the symbolism, starting from the "fasci" was Roman), and, being a totalitarian movement, tolerated no regionalism. The political "descendants" of Fascism in Italy today still have the same anti regionalist and Romacentric policy (even their name has the word "nation" in it). There has always been a racist attitude from the North to the South. As a matter of fact there are ethnic differences of some wheight (mainly cultural and economic, but also genetic) between North and South, and since the birth of the Italian state there has been an ongoing effort to eliminate such differences. Effort that only partially succeeded. Lega Nord is regionalist, anti South, but won't qualify as a right wing party on economic, international policy, and social issues.
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Post by gwydion on May 9, 2005 6:57:03 GMT -5
The Lega Nord is in a fantasy world in that they believe (falsely) that they are descended from Germanic Lombards whereas southern Italians are the mixed descendants of North Africans from the Moorish invasions. This is despite the fact that both northern and southern Italians are scarcely distinguishable physically and share the same ancient Paleolithic and Neolithic ancestry that gave rise to such populations as the Etruscans and Romans. They hate southern Italians as well as any immigrant population in Italy (mostly North Africans and Sub-Saharan Africans).
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Post by Crimson Guard on May 9, 2005 16:48:37 GMT -5
The Minor Celtic and Germanic component in Northern Italy was not domestic,and it wiped out by Marius and then by Ceasar.
The germanic barbarian invasion during the fall of the Roman Empire,led to very if any admixture of German blood into Italy,whether North or South.
One of the biggest Fascist was Julius Evola,who was SIcilian.Facism was not regionist,they where for total Unification.The promoted "Romanism" to unite all the Italian People,a concept which Hitler followed but called in "Aryanism",since obviously the Germans werent Italic's.
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Post by buddyrydell on May 9, 2005 17:01:38 GMT -5
Buddy: Fascism was definitely not anti- South. Mussolini was from a Northern region (Emilia Romagna) but Fascism exalted above all Rome (all the symbolism, starting from the "fasci" was Roman), and, being a totalitarian movement, tolerated no regionalism. The political "descendants" of Fascism in Italy today still have the same anti regionalist and Romacentric policy (even their name has the word "nation" in it). There has always been a racist attitude from the North to the South. As a matter of fact there are ethnic differences of some wheight (mainly cultural and economic, but also genetic) between North and South, and since the birth of the Italian state there has been an ongoing effort to eliminate such differences. Effort that only partially succeeded. Lega Nord is regionalist, anti South, but won't qualify as a right wing party on economic, international policy, and social issues. Well I never said that the Fascists from Mussolini's day were anti-South, but ok I see where I went wrong. So the Lega Nord is strictly secessionist (and therefore anti-South) whereas the political remnants of Fascism in Italy today are also racist, but only against non-European foreigners?
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Post by buddyrydell on May 9, 2005 17:09:51 GMT -5
Was the fascist movement anti-South? Speaking of immigrants, I read that there are more Egyptian-owned businesses in Milan than any other foreign ethnic group. I believe Filipinos came next. I don't think the African (Northwest or sub-saharan) immigrants own much at all. Alex I partially misled you with that statement. The Fascist movement under Mussolini was totalitarian and very anti-regionalist, whereas it's the Lega Nord today who advocate northern Italian separatism from the south. The Lega Nord's ideas are based on absurd notions that southern Italians are descended from North Africans (not that there would be anything wrong with that but it's just obviously incorrect) whereas they themselves are of "pure" Germanic stock. There are some differences between the northerners and southerners but basically both groups share the same Paleolithic-Neolithic ancestry (Alpine-Dinaric-Mediterranean types), only the north has a bit more of the Paleolithic (thus more Alpine and Alpine-based Dinarics) and the south has more Neolithic (thus more Med-based Dinarics or in other words Dinaricized Meds).
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Post by nockwasright on May 9, 2005 17:14:30 GMT -5
Well I never said that the Fascists from Mussolini's day were anti-South, but ok I see where I went wrong. So the Lega Nord is strictly secessionist (and therefore anti-South) whereas the political remnants of Fascism in Italy today are also racist, but only against non-European foreigners? Well, lets say the Lega partially gave up secessionism for political opportunism (they have been tamed by means of sharing government). They have racist fringes also against non European foreigners however. Actually the Lega is the party who advocates more strongly to seal the borders, even more than the right wing party. The main party of the right, Alleanza Nazionale, is the tipical European right wing party (as opposed to American, where Right means "less state") i.e. advocating centralism, state intervention in the economy, defense of Italian values in public schools, harsher punishment for criminals, no immigration from the third world. I only wanted to point out that, as I think in Spain, in Italy the historical right is very hostile to regionalism and racism between Italians.
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Post by buddyrydell on May 9, 2005 17:18:34 GMT -5
The Lega Nord is in a fantasy world in that they believe (falsely) that they are descended from Germanic Lombards whereas southern Italians are the mixed descendants of North Africans from the Moorish invasions. This is despite the fact that both northern and southern Italians are scarcely distinguishable physically and share the same ancient Paleolithic and Neolithic ancestry that gave rise to such populations as the Etruscans and Romans. They hate southern Italians as well as any immigrant population in Italy (mostly North Africans and Sub-Saharan Africans). Northerners and southerners still share the same essential Paleolithic/Neolithic ancestry that binds all of Italy together though, with the Paleolithic ancestry contributing in the Alpine types and later Med types resulting from the Neolithic, and the mix of the two has resulted in many stabilized Dinarics throughout Italy. I realize that in some regions there may be much more of one element than the other, and the example of the Celts would have yielded more Alpine influence there, whereas greater Neolithic and Greek settlements in the south resulted in a higher Med component, but basically Italians only differ regionally in the degree of how much Paleolithic or Neolithic ancestry is present, something that may still vary with the individual. I understand what you're trying to say, but I was just trying to show how the differences are greatly exaggerated and that there are really more similarities than differences.
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Post by nockwasright on May 9, 2005 17:23:07 GMT -5
basically Italians only differ regionally in the degree of how much Paleolithic or Neolithic ancestry is present, something that may still vary with the individual. I understand what you're trying to say, but I was just trying to show how the differences are greatly exaggerated and that there are really more similarities than differences. I agree on what you say about the genetic differences. However there are relevant cultural differences too, which amplify the genetic differences. This said I agree with you Buddy that the similarities are more than the differences, also culturally. Italians are recognised as such abroad regardless of their being Southerners or Northerners.
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Post by buddyrydell on May 9, 2005 18:26:30 GMT -5
I agree on what you say about the genetic differences. However there are relevant cultural differences too, which amplify the genetic differences. This said I agree with you Buddy that the similarities are more than the differences, also culturally. Italians are recognised as such abroad regardless of their being Southerners or Northerners. Yes that's true about the cultural differences. When I visited Italy, I found the North to be much more "hustle bustle" and industrialized, and just generally more well-off and modernized (with more tourists lol). I detected more of an "Americanizing" influence if you will. The people were very nice. In the South, the people were also very friendly and hospitable, though one could tell that it was somewhat more traditional, slower-paced, and characterized by greater poverty. I hope to go back someday, especially to Sicily to search for some distant relatives. The culinary differences were also very evident. The North seemed to have a lot of wine and cream sauces, whereas the South was heedy with garlic, basil, and tomato sauces (just like my grandmother's cooking lol).
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