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Post by visigodo on Feb 23, 2005 18:24:56 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm definitely not like Mynydd then, Fascist Franco was the worst thing that could have ever happened to Spain.
He may have kept crime low, but he also kept our economic development low.
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Post by eufrenio on Feb 23, 2005 18:39:51 GMT -5
Without knowing You (both) personally, I deduced these 2 conclusions from Your posts : (1) You are elder than Mynnd (you seem to be a mature person, Eufrenio), (2) You are racially assured, unlike Mynnd whom I think is andalousian. I think he suspect himself to be distantely/remotely arab-berber. Yes, Berter, I´m older and wiser. Sometimes you young lads make me feel a hundred years old! ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) As to Mynydd, I believe he´s from Valencia, which is nowhere near Andalusia.. what makes you think that Spaniards are insecure when it comes to the "moorish question"? Believe me, the majority of us don´t really care one way or another. And you Moroccans tend to overstate the amount of Moorish blood in Spain when it suits you. I think what attracts Mynydd and other Spaniards to these forums is a political drive, more than a racialist ideology. Anyway, I can only speak for myself: I know who I am and what I am. I don´t need to create an internet persona to boost my ego. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Post by visigodo on Feb 23, 2005 18:42:48 GMT -5
Zapatero is a left-wing dildo!!
What’s really funny about the PSOE (Zapatero’s party) is that they are the closest thing in the economic sense to what Franco believed. They believe as all left-wing parties believe that the government can actually promote job growth and development. (Any economist knows this not to be true)
Then we have the other side of the coin, which believes in growth through fewer taxes and less government, but has adopted some of the social ideologies of Franco. Which is one Spain, one nation and less autonomy for the regions.
So we are damned if we do, and damned if we don’t.
Okay kids time for me to step off the Soap Box!....Good night thank you all for coming.....hahahaahah
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Post by visigodo on Feb 23, 2005 18:49:40 GMT -5
I have to agree with Eufrenio, their tends to be an overstatement of Moorish blood in Spain in some of these bulletin boards. Plenty of ignorance. That’s why I’m here to clarify, mostly to enlighten our North American friends who have never been to Spain. That’s who mostly visit these things anyway.
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Post by eufrenio on Feb 23, 2005 18:53:00 GMT -5
The Basque Country is different they have their own distinct identity, so to a certain extent I sympathize with their plight. Plight? What plight? The Basque Country is one of the more developed parts of the country. It´s in decline now because of terrorism and the parochialism of nationalism. They were never discriminated against. On the contrary, they were allowed to keep their old laws, the "fueros", and paid less taxes; even Franco treated them with kid gloves. As for their language, only official use was banned. As to the basques being so different, I beg to disagree. Whatever differences there are, they belong more to the Paleolithic than to present times. If I were to single out a very distinct part of Spain, I´ll have to say it´s either Andalusia, with its rich past going back to the kingdom of Tartessos, or Galicia, with its peculiar Romanic atmosphere. The rest of the country is quite uniform.
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Post by eufrenio on Feb 23, 2005 19:04:37 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm definitely not like Mynydd then, Fascist Franco was the worst thing that could have ever happened to Spain. He may have kept crime low, but he also kept our economic development low. I bet Mynydd is not a great fan of Franco. He probably is a greater fan of Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera, the Phalangist leader. Like it or not, Franco was much better for Spain than a Leftist Republican regime would have been. The Republic was dominated by communists for the second half of its existence, which prompted the military coup and the Civil war. Franco was a narrow-minded reactionary, certainly not a political genius, but he was no fascist. And under Franco, during the sixties, Spain experienced a great economic growth, 10 % each year during the decade. So it´s unfair and untrue to say that he stunted economic growth.
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Post by visigodo on Feb 23, 2005 19:11:36 GMT -5
I'm not talking economic plight Eufrenio. Come on Eufrenio we both know Franco didn’t treat the Basques like angels he punished them for taking the republican side in the Civil War. (You think the creation of ETA during the 60’s and 70’s was a knee jerk response to the good treatment the Basques were getting and I’m not condoning ETA, but one must take into context the nature of their creation) We are not in Spain, I was for the most part educated in the U.S. so we both have access to the unbiased information about what went on during the regime. And we both know the Basque have existed long before the concept of Spain ever came to being.
And if the Basque people vote in April for the Ibarretxe plan, then it’s their prerogative to do so.
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Post by vela on Feb 23, 2005 19:21:09 GMT -5
... I know who I am and what I am. I don´t need to create an internet persona to boost my ego. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) Now, that declaration above is worth noting and it tells a lot about character. Good for you Eufrenio! p.s. Incidentally, those "internet personas" from the PanAryanism Forum are distantly removed from a balanced point of view.
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Post by visigodo on Feb 23, 2005 19:23:47 GMT -5
eufrenio, Franco by definition was on the left. Yes I know I was confused for a while until a professor of mine cleared it up for me back in school. Hitler, Mussolini, and Franco were all corporatists totalitarians and believed that the central plan authority or the government is responsible for economic growth, only one side of the political field tends to push this theory, and that’s the left true not the far left cause the farther left you go, you will then hit communism. (Were every facet is controlled by the government) Remember during Franco’s regime the State controlled and owned and nationalized many industries; it wasn’t until particularly Aznar came in and recognized that privatization would yield tremendous growth. Since then Spain has the fastest economic growth rate than any nation in Europe due to these reforms. I can only expect that the PSOE will F*ck things up.
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Post by Crimson Guard on Feb 23, 2005 19:29:50 GMT -5
The left and right wing nonsense is a meanlingless label,that its line is constantly blurred.But one thing is quite certain:
FASCISM is not left wing!
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Post by eufrenio on Feb 23, 2005 19:41:43 GMT -5
I'm not talking economic plight Eufrenio. Come on Eufrenio we both know Franco didn’t treat the Basques like angels he punished them for taking the republican side in the Civil War. (You think the creation of ETA during the 60’s and 70’s was a knee jerk response to the good treatment the Basques were getting and I’m not condoning ETA, but one must take into context the nature of their creation) We are not in Spain, I was for the most part educated in the U.S. so we both have access to the unbiased information about what went on during the regime. And we both know the Basque have existed long before the concept of Spain ever came to being. And if the Basque people vote in April for the Ibarretxe plan, then it’s their prerogative to do so. You admit yourself that you have a second-hand knowledge of the problem. You should read real facts and not leftist propaganda, such as what you can find in the New York Times or Newsweek. Let me make this clear: the basques were repressed, yes, but no more than , say, The Asturians or castilians were repressed. It was a repressive regime, and every citizen and region had to give up most of their political rights. That doesn´t make the Basques privileged victims. Personally, I don´t think Franco had anything to do with ETA. It was a bastard child of Carlism (a movement going back to the mid- XiX th century) and Communism. You´re wrong in assuming that the basque country was there before Spain. Tht´s only true ofNavarre , and it could only be partially called basque. What you had were counties, such as Vizcaya and Guipuzcoa. The Basque myth is a hoax!
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Post by visigodo on Feb 23, 2005 19:44:13 GMT -5
It is I dint relize it my self until I had a one to one with a Poli Sci. Professor a long time ago:
Fascism: Definitions of fascism a system of government marked by centralization of authority.
Communism: fundamentally, a system of social organization in which property (especially real property and the means of production) is held in common. (A central authority again)
Think of it this way: in this order from left to right....
Communism.........Fascism......(Tree huggers).......left liberal middle/ Moderate..........Conservative........finally.....libertarian (who believe hardly any government at all)
Believe me the people on the left want to disassociate as much as possible with those two categories. (Communism, and Fascism)
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Post by eufrenio on Feb 23, 2005 19:48:27 GMT -5
eufrenio, Franco by definition was on the left. Yes I know I was confused for a while until a professor of mine cleared it up for me back in school. Hitler, Mussolini, and Franco were all corporatists totalitarians and believed that the central plan authority or the government is responsible for economic growth, only one side of the political field tends to push this theory, and that’s the left true not the far left cause the farther left you go, you will then hit communism. (Were every facet is controlled by the government) Remember during Franco’s regime the State controlled and owned and nationalized many industries; it wasn’t until particularly Aznar came in and recognized that privatization would yield tremendous growth. Since then Spain has the fastest economic growth rate than any nation in Europe due to these reforms. I can only expect that the PSOE will F*ck things up. I agree with you to a certain degree. Franco´s economy was state-monitored, yes, but there were less taxes back then (no income tax!) and the State had not yet become the monster it is today, with its stranglehold on the GDP and its millions of civil servants. Spain 40 years ago was closer to a libertarian´s dream than it is today, I´m afraid. And Aznar is no less statist than Zapatero. They have different styles but basically they follow the same policies.
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Post by eufrenio on Feb 23, 2005 19:57:07 GMT -5
Now, that declaration above is worth noting and it tells a lot about character. Good for you Eufrenio! p.s. Incidentally, those "internet personas" from the PanAryanism Forum are distantly removed from a balanced point of view. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) It´s sheer madness, if you ask me!
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Post by visigodo on Feb 23, 2005 20:00:32 GMT -5
I can see we are probably going to go nowhere on this issue Eufrenio, but you know I still love yah.
I just don’t think forcing a region to feel Spanish for the Sake of Castilla, or Espana is worth it. We will find out in April if the Basque people feel Spanish or not. Personally I’m praying for them to stay with us, it’s in their economic interest, as well as ours. But I can’t see what would be the point to making them feel Spanish.
By the way Eufrenio, I’m no commie. As you can probably tell by reading most of my posts, and the information I read, I do read with a grain of salt. But having said this there are books written by American writers who have no agenda, and put Franco and his regime in a bad light.
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