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Post by IfTheLightTakesUs on Jan 29, 2005 15:11:16 GMT -5
I didn't look there very long. It looks to me like raceandstuff is a bunch of American blacks that are confused about their identity. Is that what the forum as a whole is in general? Yes, for an example of one of these confused blacks, see the below quote. Then, by that definition, North Africans should be able to take advantage of the "African American" category. They are more than 1/16 black. And, in some cases, much more. Moreover, since European-Caucasian looking African Americans are allowed to take advantage of the category, it would be absolutely unfair to deny mixed-race Africans who are not visibly European the same advantages. Hey jazel, I remember you from brazzil. Now you're probably busy trying to meet the BS quota for raceandstuff.tk. I would express my hatred for you in detail, but I'd rather not get banned over someone as jaded and confused as you.
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Jazel
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Post by Jazel on Jan 29, 2005 17:25:22 GMT -5
Hey jazel, I remember you from brazzil. Now you're probably busy trying to meet the BS quota for raceandstuff.tk. I would express my hatred for you in detail, but I'd rather not get banned over someone as jaded and confused as you. Awwww, stop being a baby. lol I understand that your thread here has gone in a direction you find totally unacceptable. But remember, it was you who declared that you "will fill in the 'African-American' box on everything". You shouldn't be surprised that someone would dare acknowledge your own black African ancestry in support of your decision to do so. This is especially true in light of your comment below: I'm Egyptian, but as we know, Egypt has undergone plenty of mixing.
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Post by mrrogers on Jan 29, 2005 21:20:05 GMT -5
do you sniff jesus A SS or jewish hitler A SS? LOL!
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Post by IfTheLightTakesUs on Jan 30, 2005 0:35:58 GMT -5
Awwww, stop being a baby. lol I understand that your thread here has gone in a direction you find totally unacceptable. But remember, it was you who declared that you "will fill in the 'African-American' box on everything". You shouldn't be surprised that someone would dare acknowledge your own black African ancestry in support of your decision to do so. This is especially true in light of your comment below: First of all, when I made that comment, I should have been more clear. I'm already aware of various white/Turkish mixes on my father's side, and I was saying it with that in mind. BUT, I won't deny Negro mixture in Egypt, that's just silly. and as for my black african ancestry, I have NONE, as far as my family tree goes back. Your intentions really piss me off, argh. (that "argh" was me releasing my anger)
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Post by custerken on Jan 30, 2005 12:53:49 GMT -5
You may very well have African ancestry. You'll have to trace it through hundreds of years.
In the U.S., a lot of mixed African-Caucasians passed for Caucasian. Recently, Carol Channing admitted that her father passed for Caucasian. Even in South Africa, kids who looked more Caucasian were taken from African families - so more mixtures.
Ancient Egypt attests to the fact that there were "kinky" hair and darker skin tones, likely due to African mixtures.
People migrate and mix over thousands of years, and to deny your Egyptian/African heritage is absurd.
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Post by IfTheLightTakesUs on Jan 30, 2005 15:32:06 GMT -5
You may very well have African ancestry. You'll have to trace it through hundreds of years. In the U.S., a lot of mixed African-Caucasians passed for Caucasian. Recently, Carol Channing admitted that her father passed for Caucasian. Even in South Africa, kids who looked more Caucasian were taken from African families - so more mixtures. Ancient Egypt attests to the fact that there were "kinky" hair and darker skin tones, likely due to African mixtures. People migrate and mix over thousands of years, and to deny your Egyptian/African heritage is absurd. Don't even go there. I'll try to avoid this can of worms while being the bigger man. I would greatly appreciate if you refrained from posting things with Afrocentrist intentions in my threads. Thanks.
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Post by alexandrian on Jan 31, 2005 20:12:03 GMT -5
Alexandrian, just curious, do you identify with "white?" Absolutely
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Post by Igu on Feb 1, 2005 21:21:17 GMT -5
-Personally, I also see myself as "white" (As my people has seen itself for centuries) but I strongly disagree with the US classification : NA/ME and Europeans are not the same, even though they are close to each other genetically they do not see themseleves as an interdependent entity. -Yes, many NA/ME could pass themselves for Europeans but I don't think they'd like acting this way, during French colonization, Algerians could get the French nationality just by leaving Islam... very very few did (Christians and Jews automatically had it because they weren't Muslims) even Areligious people did not try to get the French nationality (and they are many in my family)... I give this example to show how different and rancorous NA/ME are to each other. -I don't know, But I think it's silly to say that an Algerian has been more privileged and less persecuted than a sub-Saharan... In south africa, 600 students were killed in the 70's, a memorial and a museum is dedicated to them (I think this is the "most horrible event" in the history of the "most persecuted" african country) ... If Algeria had the current South african regime we would end up with 2 000 museums just to remember the deaths of 54-62 war... Sincerely, I wish my people had been "persecuted" by Afrikaners when I see algeriens in 62 and black south Africans in 1994. -The question should have been : do "arabs" identify with Europeans? Certainly not.
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Post by Igu on Feb 1, 2005 21:28:28 GMT -5
I want to add a comment:
Only an inferior people deserves Affirmative action. I dont want to deserve it.
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Post by IfTheLightTakesUs on Feb 1, 2005 21:49:27 GMT -5
-Personally, I also see myself as "white" (As my people has seen itself for centuries) but I strongly disagree with the US classification : NA/ME and Europeans are not the same, even though they are close to each other genetically they do not see themseleves as an interdependent entity. -Yes, many NA/ME could pass themselves for Europeans but I don't think they'd like acting this way, during French colonization, Algerians could get the French nationality just by leaving Islam... very very few did (Christians and Jews automatically had it because they weren't Muslims) even Areligious people did not try to get the French nationality (and they are many in my family)... I give this example to show how different and rancorous NA/ME are to each other. -I don't know, But I think it's silly to say that an Algerian has been more privileged and less persecuted than a sub-Saharan... In south africa, 600 students were killed in the 70's, a memorial and a museum is dedicated to them (I think this is the "most horrible event" in the history of the "most persecuted" african country) ... If Algeria had the current South african regime we would end up with 2 000 museums just to remember the deaths of 54-62 war... Sincerely, I wish my people had been "persecuted" by Afrikaners when I see algeriens in 62 and black south Africans in 1994. -The question should have been : do "arabs" identify with Europeans? Certainly not. You posted in the wrong thread, hah. I consider berbers to be white because other whites would not have a problem accepting them as their own.
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Post by Igu on Feb 1, 2005 22:14:23 GMT -5
You posted in the wrong thread, hah. I consider berbers to be white because other whites would not have a problem accepting them as their own. -Many times people come to me and speak with me in Afrikaans, I explain kindly that I'm not afrikaans and that I'm foreigner... They chat with me, they're nice and then they ask : "I forgot to ask you! where are you from?", I answer and then the face changes from to this ... it happen 50% of the time, imagine if I apply for a Job with my name...etc. White... I am, european looking? yes according to some, from european descent? absolutely not!
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Jazel
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Post by Jazel on Feb 2, 2005 1:27:53 GMT -5
You posted in the wrong thread, hah. I consider berbers to be white because other whites would not have a problem accepting them as their own. If you consider them "white" (particularly those with fair skin), then it should be because they consider themselves "white" - not because some foreigners (so-called "other whites") accept them as such... at their convenience. Most Berbers see themselves for what they are - Berbers, descendants of the earliest populations of Northern Africa. They generally do not identify with Arabic or Eurocentric ideas of what they should be and could care less about being seen as "white" or anything else. They are a proud people, distinct in their own right and arguably their own race. Like most Africans, they have never had any need or desire to associate themselves with Europeans, Arabs, or other African tribes. Personally, I don't consider them "white" because they are far too diverse phenotypically and genetically, and the description simply does not do them justice.
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Post by Springa on Feb 2, 2005 7:03:38 GMT -5
I'd say that Berbers are like Brazilians, in a way. They're a group with a common language (in different varieties of course) comprised of people of difference races (some are caucasoid, some have black admixture), but with a genetic link between them, which is the original native north African genes. Just like there are black, white, and mixed Brazilians, but most are united by Portuguese blood, in varying quantities.
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Berter
New Member
Et si on fait un tour ensemble, Nouna!?
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Post by Berter on Feb 2, 2005 14:11:50 GMT -5
I'd say that Berbers are like Brazilians, in a way. They're a group with a common language (in different varieties of course) comprised of people of difference races (some are caucasoid, some have black admixture), but with a genetic link between them, which is the original native north African genes. Just like there are black, white, and mixed Brazilians, but most are united by Portuguese blood, in varying quantities. I think this classic racial picture/model applies not only to berbers (an old nation) or brazilians (a modern nation), but also to many other populations that have resulted from the superposition of sevearal human layers over an old substratum. The good example I can think of is the european population which is actually a net of paleolithic populations connected with neolithic indoeuropean genitical or cultural links. In the case of Berbers, only 2 distinct (!?) prehistoric populations contributed to their genisis : the Capsians who lived in central north africa between about 8000 B.C. and 4000 B.C and the Ibero-maurusians who lived in the coastal regions from between 15,000 and 10,000 B.C. Between about 9000 and 5000 B.C., the Capsian culture began influencing the Ibero-maurusian , and after about 3000 B.C. the remains of just one human type can be found throughout the region. The amalgam of these 2 peoples of North Africa coalesced eventually into a distinct native population that came to be called Berbers.
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Post by alexandrian on Feb 2, 2005 16:53:08 GMT -5
If you consider them "white" (particularly those with fair skin), then it should be because they consider themselves "white" - not because some foreigners (so-called "other whites") accept them as such... at their convenience. Most Berbers see themselves for what they are - Berbers, descendants of the earliest populations of Northern Africa. They generally do not identify with Arabic or Eurocentric ideas of what they should be and could care less about being seen as "white" or anything else. They are a proud people, distinct in their own right and arguably their own race. Like most Africans, they have never had any need or desire to associate themselves with Europeans, Arabs, or other African tribes. Personally, I don't consider them "white" because they are far too diverse phenotypically and genetically, and the description simply does not do them justice. haha, I love it when Afrocentrists make statements over what North AFricans consider themselves. When Berbers, Morroccans, Egyptians or anyone from the Middle East/North African region come to America, they tend to consider themselves white.
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