Have the Jews of the USA tricked all Americans?

[Dean]

lamda said:

Led Zep, Stones, Beatles. 'Nuff said.

All of these bands were influenced by American music--in the case of the Stones and Zeppelin, blues music--and early American rock and roll. But I will not engage in a national superiority argument. I love British rock bands and American rock bands. I saw Black Sabbath and Judas Priest, the Birmingham fellas, earlier this year. Though they are past their prime, they still rocked pretty good.

[Dean]

Josh said:

I voted no since the question is, "Have the Jews of the USA tricked all Americans to believe they are the 'Chosen People'?" I'm from the US and I sure as hell don't think they are. However, it seems that many people here, especially religious fundies like Jerry Falwell, do think that they are the chosen people, which I think is quite stupid.

It's funny that many who are Jew-bashers or Jew-fixated are Judeo-Christians. Of course Jews are the chosen people--to themselves. If you don't like that, get your own religion. What about everyone else? Why don't people follow or create their own religions based on their races or other major cultural classifications? Why don't the Irish, for example, create their own religion call themselves the chosen people?

What bothers me most about America right now is the trend toward ultra-Conservativism. Political moderates of both major U.S. political parties need to make their presence felt. Many people believe that pushing God into the public sphere will cure problems. It never has, and it never will.

[Josh]

Dean said:

It's funny that many who are Jew-bashers or Jew-fixated are Judeo-Christians. Of course Jews are the chosen people--to themselves. If you don't like that, get your own religion. What about everyone else? Why don't people follow or create their own religions based on their races or other major cultural classifications? Why don't the Irish, for example, create their own religion call themselves the chosen people?

What bothers me most about America right now is the trend toward ultra-Conservativism. Political moderates of both major U.S. political parties need to make their presence felt. Many people believe that pushing God into the public sphere will cure problems. It never has, and it never will.

I'm not sure if the comments in your post were specifically addressed towards me, but I'm not a Christian. I don't believe in any religion. I also think it's stupid when Christians are anti-semitic, because it makes no sense to hate Jews while having your most revered saints and savior as Jews themselves. And as I said in another post, I think the idea that any group of people is the chosen people is absurd.

[buddyrydell]

Dean said:

It's funny that many who are Jew-bashers or Jew-fixated are Judeo-Christians. Of course Jews are the chosen people--to themselves. If you don't like that, get your own religion. What about everyone else? Why don't people follow or create their own religions based on their races or other major cultural classifications? Why don't the Irish, for example, create their own religion call themselves the chosen people?

What bothers me most about America right now is the trend toward ultra-Conservativism. Political moderates of both major U.S. political parties need to make their presence felt. Many people believe that pushing God into the public sphere will cure problems. It never has, and it never will.

I agree with much of what was said here. Having too much mixture of politics and religion is about as bad as it gets. Look at theocracies such as Iran. Free speech is repressed, citizens have no rights, and I could go on about a slew of human rights violations that occur in nations whose governments base much, if not all, of their laws on religion. How ironic and hypocritical isn't it? As if any religion would condone such violations. We should all respect other people's religious beliefs and let them lead their own lives, but the purpose of the government is not to enforce a specific religion's value system, but to protect the basic human rights of its citizens and to run the country.

As to the original question, I don't even like the wording. It sounds rather anti-Semitic to me, and this is coming from a non-Jew, a Catholic at that. Jews haven't "tricked" anybody into thinking they're the chosen people. As I said I'm Catholic, but I'm not naive in that I understand that the Bible has its flaws due to the fact that it was written by men. I don't personally think any ethnic or religious group is favored by God or a supreme being. That's absurd. Maybe the Jews themselves believe in the "chosen people" concept in Judaism, but Christianity doesn't preach that. All people are equal in the eyes of God, both Jew and Gentile.

Btw I'm not a fanatical Catholic ;D. I tend to mix Catholic views with evolution in order to make sense of things, something that I discussed in an earlier post. It may sound weird to many if not most people, but that's what I believe.

[Dean]

Josh said:

I'm not sure if the comments in your post were specifically addressed towards me, but I'm not a Christian. I don't believe in any religion. I also think it's stupid when Christians are anti-semitic, because it makes no sense to hate Jews while having your most revered saints and savior as Jews themselves. And as I said in another post, I think the idea that any group of people is the chosen people is absurd.

I certainly didn't direct it toward you. When I wrote "you" in "If you don't like that..." I meant that generally, where you means anybody.

The ancient Jewish religion, to which many subscribe, I imagine was written for Jews by Jews. Ancient Greeks in a way believed they were the chosen people, by proclaiming that non-Greeks were barbarians.

[Josh]

Dean said:

I certainly didn't direct it toward you. When I wrote "you" in "If you don't like that..." I meant that generally, where you means anybody.

Alright, no problem. I just wasn't sure as you quoted my post in yours.

[vela]

As always, it is good to read your opinions, buddy. Your comments show a balanced and measured position on these sensitive subjects. If I hadn’t read your previous posts where you write about your age, I would’ve thought that this was written by someone older than you.

So it seems that whoever thought of the necessity of keeping church and state separate was indeed a wise person. But that line of separation isn’t and hasn’t always been as nitid as we would like to believe. (And this applies not only to the U.S. but to any other nations that follow a democratic form of government.)

Regarding the question of this thread, you’re right that it has a rather anti-Semitic slant. Even if the founding fathers of the United States professed a Judeo-Christian faith, and even if they believed that they were really chosen by God, it doesn’t mean that they were “tricked” into believing that. As a matter of fact, the birth of the United States as a nation can’t be understood without also delving into the Masonic and/or Rosicrucian philosophical background of the original drafters of the Bill of Rights and the American Constitution.

Nicolas Cage recent movie “National Treasure” has sparked an interest in the old symbols and Latin expressions found on the back of US dollar bill, but obviously Hollywood’s movie industry isn’t really interested in educating the public about the true meaning of the All-Seeing Eye, the Pluribus Unum, the Novus Ordo Seculorum, Annuit Coptis, etc.

The origin of all this symbolism is shrouded in the mysterious teachings of Hermeticism and other ancient esoteric schools like Gnosticism, Alchemy, etc.. And even today, I suppose there must be some kind of secret elites that keep alive the old traditions that laid the philosophical foundation of the USA, although I sincerely doubt that today’s political hierarchy is the true repository of that ancient knowledge. Scratch that, I’m hell sure most of today’s politicians are just a bunch of illegal usurpers of a power that is not rightfully theirs.

Well, what do I know???

[Dean]

buddyrydell said:

As to the original question, I don't even like the wording. It sounds rather anti-Semitic to me, and this is coming from a non-Jew, a Catholic at that.

Satyros is stereotyping Americans. I certainly do not feel that because I am American I am a chosen person whose motive is to rule the world. Perhaps he is alluding to American elites, who are in the upper echelons of power and who want to wield power or are wielding power.

Buddy, if you have a moment, please visit my "Uncle and His Wife" thread in "Guess Race/Ethnicity/Nationality" and classify my uncle and his wife.

[BabylonLion]

You know what, I don't mean to be d*ck but I wont even read through the posts, the thread title and poll is enough for me.

ONLY PEOPLE WHO ARE FAR BEHIND AND REGRESSED, WITH ENVY AND JEALOUSY would seriously look at this or think about it. "THEY" reached their "CURRENT STATE" from hard work, and if you feel "duped" then you are a FOOL make no mistake you are obsessed or prejudiced (not racist, does not apply here)...Im tired of hearing crap about the Jews, it is irrellevent, and you should take care of your own business and not speak on anyone.

[CuriousGuy]

Why are there so many Yes and No options. I voted 'no', because not all Americans are tricked. If the question asked about a significant number, I would have voted yes.

[vela]

CuriousGuy said:

Why are there so many Yes and No options. I voted 'no', because not all Americans are tricked. If the question asked about a significant number, I would have voted yes.

When this question was originally posted it had several different options to chose from but somehow those have been replaced by a list of yes and nos. It is possible that someone messed this thread either deliberately or by accident.

Anyway, take all these polls you find here with a grain of salt. You're not likely to find an objective and professionally designed poll. In a lot of instances like this one, you'll find a limited number of answers that reflect a peculiar bias of its creators.

If you have an opinion express it in your own words.

[Brasidas]

I believe what Satyros was eluding to is how the American policy makers have favored the Jewish state over all others of the region. It is a fact that the U.S spends close to 30 Billion $ a year on Israel. Israel would not exist if it wasn't for U.S aid(both financial and Military). I hate to be the one to say it, but Israel has, in a sense, been the biggest problem in the Middle East. Most problems in the Middle East stem from the Palestinian situation.
The U.S always sides with the Israelis in the conflict because they feel Islrael is strategically important, the same as Turkey. If this wasn't the case then the U.S would have stopped funding Israel after they were caught spying on the U.S or even after an Israeli fighter atacked a U.S warship flying the American flag, killing 17. These actions usually end up in War. I find it strange that even though the European Jews were put through a holocaust that many of them after going to Israel are now supporting the policies of their government who are doing the same to the Palestinians(but on a much smaller scale).

Here is the funny thing, the Israeli government has tried to make a connection with the U.S by making the Palestinian suicide bombers the same as the Al-Qaida ones. This is then propogated by the U.S Government to on the U.S public to have them beleive that the two are the same, thus enhancing their position to continue sending more in aid to Israel. The strange part is here in the U.S we only hear about the Palestinian suicide bomber who blows up a bus, but we never hear about the Israeli snipers shooting civilians sitting in their own homes. Or we never hear about the tank firing on a group of kids throwing ROCKS, and killing 20 of them. Since the beginning of the Intefada there have been just under 800 Israelis killed, but there have been close to 3000 Palestinians killed. Now the 3000 Palestinians being killed are killed by the Israeli military and a few extremist Settlers. On the other hand the 800 Israelis that have been killed are killed by other civilians. (Both of these are bad, but which is worst?)

This is what is being spread all over the U.S media and so the Religious Righters of the U.S take what they see and jump on the band wagon. Thus condemning the Palestianians and supporting the "People" of the "Holy Land". Another thing is these same people call Arabs anti-semitic, but they have no idea that Arabs are also semitic. Many U.S religous groups preach hatred of the Muslims and this causes more favoritism towards the Israelis. A good example of this is; on another board that is a 4X4 site they have a "Political Banter" board. On this board they have been bashing all Middle and Near Easterners saying we should just kill them all, Blah, blah , blah. Anyways there is one guy who I feel very sorry for. He is a Born Again Right Wing Neo-Con who has ben preached to in his little country church that "ALL MUSLIMS ARE KILLERS". He posted this and so I replied, "you really need to get an education about Islam and other cultures before you start grouping everyone under Terrorist" I further told him that my best friend is from Afghanistan(Yeah a Persian and a Greek being friends) and I guarantee neither himself or his family have any kind of violent behavior in them, and that he was more likely to commit a violent crime before any of them." This really pissed him off and in reply he said "Just wait and see, they might act all peacefull now, but I guarantee they are sleepers(meaning the will one day become violent) and you will be the first they kill."

This is a good idea of the B.S people in my country(U.S) have been fed by the Neo-Cons and Religious Righters for the past 10 years or so. Now besides this, it is not an unknown fact that some Jewish people here have a lot of political power and influence and they help propogate some of this misinformation to help their bretheren at home in Israel.

One final thing, the Religious Righters have this idea that because Jesus was a Jew and that Christianity spread out of Judaism, that they must protect the holy land from those who do not believe like they do. (This meaning the Muslims) Religious Righters have a great misunderstanding of Islam, so they are manipulated through fear and hatred to side with Israel.

So to answer Satyros question, NO, I don't think "ALL" Americans have been tricked, but there are a large number that have. It isn't neccesarily done by the Jews themselves, but they probably have had some kind of hand in it.

[Melnorme]

Brasidas said:

Most problems in the Middle East stem from the Palestinian situation.

What problems are those? Except Lebanon and to a lesser extant Jordan - both countries that are not currently overtly hostile to America - Palestinians have never caused or been related to problems in any Middle Eastern country outside of Israel.

Trying to blame the existence of Saudi, Pakistani and Afghan ( just a few examples ) terrorism on 'Israel and the Palestinians' is ridiculous. The terrorists don't deserve those kinds of excuses - it's bullshit.