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Post by whydah on Jun 8, 2004 20:41:43 GMT -5
captain, that was tasteless. Atleast i hope you were joking
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Post by captainusa1 on Jun 8, 2004 22:21:38 GMT -5
I think that using racial epithets is lame. Your friends may or may not care if you use the "N" word in a joking way. It really depends on how they personally feel about it. I prefer to not use the word in any context because it's like the racial equivalent of the "C" word. I would never jokingly call my wife that. BTW, I'm in no way related to Captain Blood. We're apparently in different navies.
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Post by Graeme on Jun 9, 2004 9:07:59 GMT -5
Europeans did not start negro slavery. It was going on in African by negroes against negroes for centuries. I saw an interesting documentary where various negro village spokesmen in Africa owned up to their village's part in slavery, showing the places the slaves were kept prior to resale. There was a very systematic network of trails and villages involved in the slave trade in Africa. The Europeans got involved when cheap labour was needed in the Americas. If negro slavery is genocide, it is similar to the Hutu attempt to exterminate the Tutsi, a Bantu negro group against a Nilotic group. That has been going on in Africa long before European thought of controlling parts of it.
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Post by jake on Jun 11, 2004 11:36:49 GMT -5
well first of all, the american slave trade was not genocide because it did not involve killing off the entire black race. and black slavery did actually start in black nations who traded with arabs, portuguese, and only later the english. one misconception that is actually taught in my school is that white people stole blacks from their homeland and brought them into slavery. although this may have happened to a certain extent, by far most slaves were acquired through trade. and hey, towards the end of slavery times in the US, even free blacks kept black slaves.
but now to follow up on what dave is saying... this in my opinion is a huge double standard. it happens a lot in the US, and probably more than anywhere else in washington DC where 70% percent of the population is black. I don't hear "cracka" much, but "white boy" is widely used, even by dumb white apologists. I know "white boy" doesn't sound necessarily derogatory, but consider a white person regularly calling black guys "black boy." there'd be a lot more heat. and yes, here too some words are reserved for black people and apparently "racist" when they come out of white people's mouths. many forms of behavior are acceptable at my school and in washington when it involves black people, but are somehow offensive when coming from whites. some people here would say it's all right since "we kept the blacks down for 300 years." but in my opinion, blacks here are by far more racist than whites. it becomes obvious when you just imagine switching what white and black people do and say. it's just all right because it's been going on for some years and we're used to it (well I'm not), and a lot of white people here are push overs and apologists, otherwise, they just don't wanna get beat up.
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Post by Graeme on Jun 11, 2004 12:31:48 GMT -5
Negro slavery is part of the double standards. Caucasians are to blame for everything, right? Said or whatever username he chooses is being racist, negrocentric propaganda is racist and it goes beyond the use of childish, derogatory words. Afro repeated a negrocentric claim that whites have been destroying artworks, monuments and altering history to make whites the inventors of civilisation, learning and disinherit negroes. The belief is that Egypt was negro, North Africa was negro, the most cultured non caucasoid part of Africa, East Africa is claimed to be negro. The problem is that American creoles have no link to anywhere except the Americas and they want to claim Africa and its achievements because out of ignorance they think Africa is the same as negro. The trouble is the Africa they claim is not negro and never was during its golden age.
Yes there is a lot of double standards by negroes or negro mixes.
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Afro
Full Member
Posts: 248
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Post by Afro on Jun 13, 2004 19:28:36 GMT -5
www.villagevoice.com/issues/0011/noel.phpNearly two hours before Amadou Diallo died of the barbaric consequences of alleged racial profiling by police, his four would-be assailants, who were cruising 174th Street in the Soundview section of the Bronx in search of a serial rapist, suddenly swerved their unmarked car at the corner of Croes and Fteley avenues.
In a never-before reported account of the cops' alleged actions leading up to the shooting that February night last year, Denise Marks, 37, who was driving by on her way home, remembers slowing down at about 11:20 p.m. after she saw four white men "jump out of the burnt-red, ugly, beat-up Taurus in a frenzy—like they were on drugs, on something really hyped." According to Marks, the men, who she suspected were cops in plainclothes, stopped and frisked a young black man, rummaged through his knapsack, and then let him go. Marks, who drove slowly past the cops, was about to turn into the parking lot of her nearby building when she saw her husband, Brian, approaching.
"I got scared because I feared he was next," Marks told the Voice. She pleaded with her husband, 36, to get in the car. Brian works for the city, but that night he was dressed down, wearing baggy camouflage army pants and an oversized, black-hooded sweattop. Marks's fear that her husband's "ghetto awareness wear" would trigger the white cops to stereotype him is not unfounded.
About 50 white and black uniformed and undercover officers who participated in an unscientific survey by the Voice contend that "the felon look"—that "Tupac-thug-for-life" image and posture captured in this week's cover illustration—account for a majority of the stops and frisks. Using the composite sketch, the cops assigned high and low percentages to every piece of brand-name clothing, headgear, and footwear that they say contributes to the makeup of a racial profile and causes them to confront a person. Whites donning similar clothing rarely are stopped. In the cops' opinion:
* A baseball cap, worn at any angle, accounts for 10 percent of their stops.
* A bandanna, particularly red or blue, hints at gang involvement and accounts for 20 percent of stops.
* An XXL hooded sweattop, or "hoodie," accounts for 20 percent of stops.
* Sagging, baggy trousers, especially dungarees, account for 30 percent of stops.
* Exposed plaid boxer shorts account for 10 percent of stops.
* Expensive high-top sneakers—unlaced, suggesting that the person may have done prison time—account for 10 percent of stops.
Denise Marks felt that it was only a matter of time before the four antsy cops would be attracted by her husband's "perp colors"—as Brian would later describe his attire—and come after him. He got in the car and the couple drove off. Minutes later, Marks pulled into her building's parking lot. While her husband was locking the gate, Marks says she noticed the same cop car reversing on Croes Avenue, as if to come after him. "I guess they noticed we were together when my husband started walking toward me," she says. "By the time we got to the front entrance of my building, they were again stopping people."
The couple watched the cops stop and frisk a number of residents and then get back into their car and drive away without making any arrests. The next morning, the Markses turned on the TV and there they were. Officers Sean Carroll, 36, Edward McMellon, 27, Kenneth Boss, 28, and Richard Murphy, 27—the same four cops Marks had feared might mistake her husband for a common criminal—were being accused of gunning down an unarmed West African immigrant in a barrage of 41 bullets in the vestibule of his apartment just blocks from where they lived. After the defense won a change of venue, an Albany jury believed that Diallo's killers made a tragic mistake, and acquitted them last month.
The killing of Diallo and the shocking outcome of the trial bolstered charges made by African Americans and Latinos that the New York Police Department has been engaged in a long-standing "pattern and practice" of racial profiling, a widespread, law enforcement policy of targeting blacks and Latinos they suspect are likely to commit certain crimes. An investigation into the NYPD's crime-fighting tactics revealed that in 1997 and 1998 the mostly white Street Crime Unit—whose members boasted "We Own the Night"—stopped and searched 45,000 men, mostly African Americans and Latinos, while making a little more than 9000 arrests. Even though the rogue squad was disbanded in the face of public outcry, racial profiling by cops continues. For every 16 African Americans stopped and frisked, only one is arrested.
When blacks and Latinos aren't looking like "hoodies," or as in Brian Marks's case, dressed down, they might resemble the four Ivy League minority graduates who last week accused three white undercover cops of subjecting them to a night of terror as they drove through Manhattan. Their attorney, civil rights advocate Richard Emery, called the incident a classic case of racial profiling (it belongs in the category known as "Driving While Black"). In announcing a federal civil rights lawsuit against the NYPD, the two men and two women alleged that the officers used excessive force and unlawfully detained them. The lawsuit, which seeks unspecified damages, charges that none of the plainclothes officers identified themselves as police or showed badges.
According to the four—Jason Rowley, 25, Sheldon Gilbert, 24, Lauren Sudeall, 23, and Marie Claire Lim, 23—their run-in with police began shortly after they left work in Brooklyn late on January 10. (Rowley is a Brown graduate; the other three graduated from Yale.) All four were in Rowley's car when another vehicle screeched to a halt in front of Rowley. A man jumped out and pointed a gun at Rowley. "Fearing for his life and the lives of his passengers, Rowley ducked behind the steering wheel, put the car in reverse, and drove backwards to escape," the lawsuit claims. But Rowley could not go anywhere because he was blocked in by another unmarked police car.
When he stopped, Detective Robert Williamson allegedly smashed the driver's side window and pulled Rowley through it. Rowley said that after he was handcuffed, he was punched, kicked, and then struck with a hard object. Gilbert also allegedly was punched by two officers.
Sergeant Andrew McInnis, a police spokesperson, said officers used "minimum force" in making the arrests, adding that they ran a check on Rowley's license plate after seeing him run a red light. The car was listed as stolen, and police began to follow it. (Rowley's car was stolen in November 1999 and he reported it to the police, who found and returned it to him.) All four were taken to a police station house for questioning. Rowley was charged with reckless endangerment and reckless driving. The charges were later dismissed.To be continued....
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Afro
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Post by Afro on Jun 13, 2004 19:29:01 GMT -5
The Ivy Leaguers' story infuriates William Acosta, a former Internal Affairs investigator whose whistleblower Equalizer Foundation investigates brutality and corruption charges against members of the NYPD. Acosta blames what happened to Rowley and his friends on Operation Condor, successor to the moribund Street Crime Unit, which is mandated to increase the number of daily drug arrests. Highly secret SNU (Street Narcotics Unit) teams focus on low-level street sales and buy-and-bust operations.
"When you run a department only to drive up arrest stats, there have to be victims," argues Acosta, who is suing the department for firing him after he tried to expose corruption. "Let's say a group of young people are hanging around in the park or on the street corner and one guy is smoking reefer. These cops will profile the entire group, and then jump out and grab everybody, who is then taken to a precinct. They fingerprint them, take pictures of them, and put them through the system to see if there are any warrants. It's called a holy fishing expedition: 'Let's see if there is a miracle when we fish. We throw the net and whatever we don't want we just throw back.' "
According to Acosta, Operation Condor specifically targets predominantly black and Latino neighborhoods such as Harlem, Washington Heights, the South Bronx, Bedford-Stuyvesant, Jackson Heights, and Corona. "They are not going into Howard Beach, Bay Ridge, and other white areas of the city," points out Acosta, who was born in Colombia and constantly was harassed about his race and national origin while on the force. "Show me the Operation Condor for white neighborhoods!" he adds. "They don't have crime in white neighborhoods? Oh, kids do not stand on the corner in white neighborhoods! Kids don't smoke reefer in white neighborhoods! Kids don't smoke crack in white neighborhoods!" Acosta's work as a private investigator sometimes puts him in courtrooms overflowing with black and Latino youths he says have been ensnared in Operation Condor's "racist profiling" and arrested on trumped-up misdemeanor drug charges.
He criticizes the city's district attorneys and judges for participating in "sham arraignments" designed to make the Giuliani administration look good. Says Acosta: "To avoid a lawsuit against the city, the assistant district attorneys are prepared to plea-bargain with the kids. They tell them, 'We have this charge of possession of marijuana we can put on you and keep you in the system. But if you sign here, we'll boil it down to a loitering arrest and you walk out of here right now.' They sign and they can't sue the city anymore because they've admitted they were doing something illegal."
Acosta's advice to "the profiled" is to clam up. "Do not plea-bargain," he reiterates. "If you didn't have any illegal stuff in your possession, if you're not the one holding the bag, why should you admit guilt?" Once back on the street, the youngsters are routinely checked by undercover cops who force them to do their dirty work. "Any teenager caught 'Standing While Black' or 'Standing While Latino' on a corner in this police state could become an unwilling informant," Acosta notes. "The cops tell them, 'We've got you now. Give us some information. Who is selling drugs? Who has guns?' "
Even eccentric Manhattan millionaire Abe Hirschfeld—who was nattily dressed last week as he reported to authorities to answer a contempt of court charge—says he is concerned about the treatment of blacks and Latinos by police. In a statement, Hirschfeld charges that "Giuliani is responsible for the killing of Amadou Diallo because he has failed to implement the type of plan I proposed to end police brutality while I was Miami Beach City Commissioner. The Miami Beach Police adopted the plan and the city has been free of Diallo-type incidents for the past ten years." Hirschfeld proposes that cops reflect the ethnic makeup of the neighborhoods they patrol.
"For example, when two white officers get out of a car in Harlem, it is immediately clear to the . . . residents that they do not come from the neighborhood," he states. "They don't sleep there. They don't send their kids to school there. In the minds of the residents, 'Those officers don't know our problems.' "
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A black undercover cop who participated in the Voice survey says his commanders often asked him and his colleagues "to dress the part," or, in his words, "look ghetto fabulous," when going out on sting operations. "We blend in nicely, but our white partners always seem to mistake us for the criminals," the insider says. "We've been shot at, injured, and killed by our own partners because of what we were wearing. Isn't that racial profiling?"
The officer says that the "friendly fire" killing in January of black Rhode Island police sergeant Cornel Young Jr. is a sobering reminder that it doesn't matter whether a cop is wearing hip hop clothes or is casually dressed. Young, 29, was off duty and in street clothes when he was shot by two white Providence policemen. He was coming to the aid of the officers, who had been confronted by a gunman. They mistook him for a suspect and shot him three times. Police said Young did respond when officers Michael Solitro III and Carlos Saraiva ordered him to drop his weapon. Solitro has only been on the force for a short time and Saraiva was in Young's academy class three years ago. Young was the son of Major Cornel Young Sr., the highest-ranking black officer on the Providence police force.
Lieutenant Eric Adams, the activist cop who heads 100 Blacks in Law Enforcement Who Care, says members of his group are frequently cautioned not to consider a person's clothes as the primary reason for a stop. "I'm not saying that there aren't black cops involved in profiling; it's just that we make sure that our people don't look at clothes," says Adams. "You will find that black and Latino cops in our organization don't fall into that trap of profiling people, because many of them dress in the same manner while off duty." Adams says that prior to the Diallo shooting, members bombarded him with complaints about being stopped by white cops because they were either sporting dreadlocks, "wearing hip hop clothes," or driving around in a Lincoln Navigator, a Lexus, or Mercedes-Benz. "We started looking into this and came to the conclusion that if this is happening to us, imagine what our civilian African American brothers are going through."
Adams says his group is working on a survival guide that his members and other minorities can follow to avoid being a victim of racial profiling. "When you purchase hip hop clothes or a Navigator you do so with the understanding that you are going to be profiled," he declares. Meanwhile, Adams is urging young hip hop aficionados to be "conscious of the clothes you wear" and what part of their attire they choose to stash items such as a wallet or ID. "If they are carrying the ID in areas where it's believed by some officers that weapons are concealed, they risk the possibility of being assaulted or fatally shot."
Black and Latino community activists in the city have been eyeing with apprehension a Chicago ordinance that goes into effect this week, which calls for the city's police superintendent to designate specific "hot spots" of gang and drug activity after consulting with community leaders, residents, and others. Once an area has been designated a hot spot, people on the street can be ordered to disperse for three hours or risk arrest. Alderman Dorothy Tillman warned other black members of the city council that it was not whites who would be targeted by the ordinance, but "your son, my son. They stand on the corner in hip hop clothes. They're going to jail."
Black people are just sooooooooooooooooooooooooo racist.
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Post by Vitor on Jun 13, 2004 23:42:24 GMT -5
I don't know about other people but I was assaulted 3 years ago.
An ordinary assault comited by 1 black person...(so I though)
I reacted, and I was agressive (...Something on me turns off, I could end up dead I didn't care shit...my hanger was impossible to measure!)
after my negative response towards the assaultant, Came up 10 black africans, and... of course they helped him (I guess they belong to the same gang).
I never saw eyes with so much hate, I believe if they could they would wipe out all the white folks... The biggest problem was my skin colour. Believe me...It was not me reaction against their's friend!
I saw my death coming!!! 3-4 minutes of kicks...
then I got some help and went into hospital...yes I am still here...just luck I guess!
That is racism and a true history that happened to me...
I believe I turn into an xenophobic after that!
But I still try to control those evil thoughts, and try allways to find the good person in all races...
But I am kind of xenophobic, I guess anyone who would suffer what I did would turn into one.. only natural I guess...
I even don't like any foreigner, even white ones... I believe there are more russians than blacks, and blacks are not the worst problem we face... I am extremelly xenophobic!
I regret those cases you point out Afro, that annoys me, I suffered a lot, And I know what is being the victim of racism.
But please it's not an white feature... I believe you (black people) have the same racism that we have!
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Post by zemelmete on Jun 14, 2004 4:17:58 GMT -5
Hmm... interesting.... I'm from east Europe and here are only very few of black people. We usually call them as niggers and here it does not mean somethig bad.
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Sandwich
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La pens?e d'un homme est avant tout sa nostalgie
Posts: 208
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Post by Sandwich on Jun 15, 2004 22:49:57 GMT -5
C'mon people, this is kinda obvious. Using racial epithets for blacks and jews is unacceptable in civilized society while the use of such terms for Poles, Greeks, etc, is relatively OK. Why? Because it is Blacks and Jews who have been tortured, burnt, enslaved, murdered etc on the basis of the ideas about race expressed by terms like Nigger and Yid. If I call someone a Polack (I'm British) it's meaningless. If a Russian or a German does it, it's probably a lot more loaded, because implicit in the use of the term is some acceptance of the actions of those who popularised the word.
Now I find Black crime and resentment as threatening as the next guy, and Black culture is still slave culture, hardly a model for the Poleis, but at the end of the day, we did it to them. Sure, we bought Black slaves from Black and Arab merchants (although whites often organized Black slave-taking gangs in Africa too) but mainly, we provided the markets that caused a huge expansion in the practice, we shipped them in inhuman conditions, and we imposed on them a form of slavery very different from that in less developed societies.
Some racial epithets just carry a lot more pain than others. The Asberger's Tendency here may not understand that.
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Dave
Junior Member
"England expects every man to do his duty" - Horatio Nelson
Posts: 56
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Post by Dave on Jun 16, 2004 7:40:11 GMT -5
C'mon people, this is kinda obvious. Using racial epithets for blacks and jews is unacceptable in civilized society while the use of such terms for Poles, Greeks, etc, is relatively OK. Why? Because it is Blacks and Jews who have been tortured, burnt, enslaved, murdered etc on the basis of the ideas about race expressed by terms like Nigger and Yid. If I call someone a Polack (I'm British) it's meaningless. If a Russian or a German does it, it's probably a lot more loaded, because implicit in the use of the term is some acceptance of the actions of those who popularised the word. Now I find Black crime and resentment as threatening as the next guy, and Black culture is still slave culture, hardly a model for the Poleis, but at the end of the day, we did it to them. Sure, we bought Black slaves from Black and Arab merchants (although whites often organized Black slave-taking gangs in Africa too) but mainly, we provided the markets that caused a huge expansion in the practice, we shipped them in inhuman conditions, and we imposed on them a form of slavery very different from that in less developed societies. Some racial epithets just carry a lot more pain than others. The Asberger's Tendency here may not understand that. I disagree. None of the white people in Britain today was responsible for the slave trade 200 years ago. Just becuase the black community may of been oppressed then, does not mean these double standards should exist today. That was then, this is NOW. Yes, whites in the past have oppressed the blacks, but these days there have been massive and successful efforts to stop that. Good. But it cannot just be one way. Both communities must accept each other to make multi culturism work. If blacks do not like racist names, in offensive ways or in jest, then they should not call whites names either. .
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Sandwich
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La pens?e d'un homme est avant tout sa nostalgie
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Post by Sandwich on Jun 16, 2004 9:54:46 GMT -5
Dave, what is there to disagree about? Some words carry a heavier load than others because of the actions associated with them, no matter who committed those actions. If I forcibly remind you that my grandparents may have done something extremely unpleasant to your grandparents, whose status was lower than that of my folk, you will not like it. Striking at your family identity really hurts. Some insults are just harder than others. An Englishman doesn't think "son of a bitch" is a serious insult until somebody call him that and means it.
I don't believe in multiculturalism anyway. It produces a meaningless cultural mishmash that nobody can be proud of.
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Post by Graeme on Jun 16, 2004 11:58:43 GMT -5
Pollack sound like the Maltese word for a Polish person. It is not offensive just descriptive. What some of you are forgetting is that it is the way words are used and the way they are pronounced that makes them offensive. In Australia when wog went out of favour as a derogatory word, ethnic began to be used in a similar vein and it meant more than its dictionary meaning depending on how the word was used and the emphasis. So even non derogatory words can be used offensively.
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Post by xxx on Jun 21, 2004 14:51:11 GMT -5
Doesn't every group have offensive words for outsiders. For example, squareheads for Swedes. Nobody is perfect. In Spain hacerse el sueco ("to pass like Swedes") means to pretend not to understand anything. I don't know if this is because of a problem of communication with the language or because they really have 'special problems' to understand things.
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Sandwich
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La pens?e d'un homme est avant tout sa nostalgie
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Post by Sandwich on Jun 23, 2004 13:25:40 GMT -5
There are a few expressions in English that are derogatory about the Dutch - nonesense is double Dutch, drinking to bolster courage is Dutch courage, etc, a reminder of the distant days when the Dutch sailed up the Thames and burnt major naval installations with impunity. What have the Swedes ever done to you lot, Mynydd?
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