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Post by Volksdeutscher on May 1, 2004 9:09:43 GMT -5
Most people on the pic I posted have medium brown hair. There are ofcourse also black, darkbrown, darkblond, blond and redhaired Dutch-Frisians, but the most common haircolour in Dutch-Frisia is medium brown hair. Medium brown is not blond, medium brown is a medium version of brown, just like the name sais.. I see 7 who are clearly blond. From upper left, number 1, 2, 3, 5, 6. From lower left, 4 and 6. Blondism defined by anthropologists is based on certain scales, like Fischer. Commoners would probably call that blondish. It is in any case in the range of the Nordid sub race. As I said, that is merely a small sample. Still, a majority are blond. That is your opinion and you are going against B Lundman, G Backman, a Dutch anthropologist, Dr. D. J. H. Nyèssen in his The Passing of the Frisians (1927), B Lundman, Kaj Birket-Smith and many others regarding the anthropology of the Netherlands. I am perfectly aware that there is a significant Alpinid element in mostly Southern Netherlands and a weak Mediterranid and minor Dinarid. England got different types as well. Eastern England is by Nyèssen and Lundman alike described as being predominantly Nordid and anthropologically closer to the Netherlands than to Germany. Blond hair is together with many other traits a Nordid trait. There is a range of pigmentation in all families and populations. It does not need to be due to admixture with neighbouring stocks. That would not discredit Coon. Furthermore, his data are from Folmer, Nyèssen, Van den Broek, Reche and so forth.
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Post by executiona9 on May 2, 2004 17:11:04 GMT -5
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Post by Graeme on May 3, 2004 11:10:29 GMT -5
I have to agree with executiona9, I see no blonds in the picture of the Frisian Dutch men. I see a lot of brown shades some lighter some darker, but still brown. They looked rather dark skinned also, I suppose from the strong Dutch light and all that water reflection.
When it comes to blondness it is the children most people seem to be referring to. In Australia among the Anglo-Saxons most of the children are blond, and very blond at that, but after puberty most have brown hair unless the blondness is chemically enhanced.
What I do disagree about with executiona9, is that women are more blond than men. In Australia, women do dye their hair more often than men but I have observed that in blond families the males are much blonder than the females and tend to have blue eyes whereas the females have darker or mixed eye colours.
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Post by berschneider on May 3, 2004 11:41:10 GMT -5
here are some various shades of brown hair : from the Loreal site, Executiona9, great links - very ILLUSTRATIVE illustration. I have to apologize for calling you know what. Do you know that the term Käsekopf (Käskopp?) has medieval origins?
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Post by berschneider on May 3, 2004 11:47:07 GMT -5
What is Nordid sub race? As I said, that is merely a small sample. Still, a majority are blond. I am sure you don't belong to that elusive majority. That would not discredit Coon. What would disCREDIT (what a fine word) Coon is his name. He is not crediworthy by default; not with this kind of name.
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Post by executiona9 on May 3, 2004 11:47:25 GMT -5
Good observation, I agree completely with it. This accounts for almost every central-European country (Holland, England, Germany, Switzerland, Czech Rep, Poland, Austria etc). In all these countries most children are blond, but most adults have brown hair In Scandinavia the situation is different. In Scandinavian countries most children are blond, but also most adults are blond (personally I count darkblond as blond too). Southern Europe is the only place in Europe were most children have brown hair. Well thats possible. It would be very boring if we would agree on everything, wouldnt it About the eye colours : I have never studied the eye colour differences between men and women. Perhaps you are right that women have on average darker eyes than men. I have never studied it, so I simply dont know.
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Post by executiona9 on May 3, 2004 11:53:29 GMT -5
Apology accepted
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Post by berschneider on May 3, 2004 12:06:30 GMT -5
This accounts for almost every central-European country (Holland, England, Germany, Switzerland, Czech Rep, Poland, Austria etc). In all these countries most children are blond, but most adults have brown hair . Executiona9, your observation is very correct. Kids do tend to have much lighter hair than their parents. My brother was angelic, dazzling blond and then started darkening as teenager. His hair got so dark – very much like some Southern Slav - I don’t let him into my house anymore lest he steals something;) Do you have any explanation for why do teenagers’ hair darken?
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Post by berschneider on May 3, 2004 12:08:17 GMT -5
Apology accepted Dank je
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Post by executiona9 on May 3, 2004 12:12:59 GMT -5
I have absolutely no idea, its just nature I guess.
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Post by Abelard on May 6, 2004 16:56:27 GMT -5
I don't mean to sound rude but since when are England and Holland considered central European nations?
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Post by berschneider on May 6, 2004 17:28:46 GMT -5
I don't mean to sound rude but since when are England and Holland considered central European nations? There are different ways of classifying Central-ness. To an American (who's got no brain. Most of them don't) Germany is Central European (in political context) while Czech Republic or Poland is Eastern Europe. Otherwise Poland and Czech Republic are of course Central Europe and Russia or Ukraine are Eastern Europe. Anway, Executiona9 does not suggest here any historic or cultural division but I believe he talks about sensible visual split of Europe - from uppermost tip of Norway down to Malta and Cyprus - into three bands of about equal size - Northern, Central and Southern. If you visualise Europe like that, which makes a lot of sense, then North ends with Denmark and Northern Germany is where "central or middle Europe" begins and France where it ends. What I think he means are not countries in the middle of the continent geographically but countries between obvious and undisputable South (Iberian pennsula or Italy or Balkans) and obvious undisputable North (Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland), i.e. the Centre. In the East of the continent Russia/Ukraine are so big of course, that they have their own virtual North, Middle and South but that's a different story. It's just my hypothesis of Executiona's classification.
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Post by Graeme on May 7, 2004 9:20:07 GMT -5
I understand executiona9 means that England is not far from Portugal in the South and opposite France which would be Central Europe. Belgium and the Netherlands are not far from France are they? The German states have controlled the south lands and the Spanish had a presence in the low countries. So in a sense England, the Netherlands and Germany are centrally located in Europe.
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Post by executiona9 on May 7, 2004 9:41:25 GMT -5
Germany is certainly in Central-Europe when it comes to geography. England is usually called North-West Europe when it comes to geography. Holland is actually on the border. Sometimes Holland is called Central-Europe, and sometimes Holland is called North-West Europe when it comes to geography. However I wasnt refering to geography when I said Holland and England are Central countries. Holland and England may be situated in North-West Europe when it comes to geography, but when it comes to looks/appearance the English and Dutch look central-european. almost all Central-european countries share the following looks : -most children blond -most adults brown hair -most people blue or green eyes, however a strong brown eyes minority (between 20 % and 40 %) Scandinavian (northern) countries share the following looks: -most children blond -most adults blond -almost everyone has blue or green eyes, brown eyes are a very small minority English and Dutch people fall into the Central-European category when it comes to looks, thats why I classified them as central
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Post by berschneider on May 7, 2004 9:43:57 GMT -5
I understand executiona9 means that England is not far from Portugal in the South and opposite France which would be Central Europe. Belgium and the Netherlands are not far from France are they? The German states have controlled the south lands and the Spanish had a presence in the low countries. So in a sense England, the Netherlands and Germany are centrally located in Europe. They had some presence there, oh furry one, through the marriage, not conquest of settlement though. Flanders had been ruled by the Dukes of Burgundy. Marriage of the ducal daughter to an Austrian Habsburg resulted in inheritances which utlimately brought this part of Flanders under Spanish crown. Not for too long though.
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