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Post by berschneider on Apr 12, 2004 10:51:49 GMT -5
Since the Untied States is going to perish sooner or later, I suspect that’ll happen rather sooner than later unless it mends its evil ways (no Evil on this scale is sustainable for long) and NAFTA will lose its meaning and become void of any purpose, what will happen to Canada? Should Canada be admitted to the EU? It is bound to Europe through heritage, two great languages and culture, as well as the monarchy that connects it to an important European state.
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Praetor
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Graecus in Fennia
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Post by Praetor on Apr 16, 2004 16:30:17 GMT -5
Canada in the EU?No thanks, if EU goes overseas it will mean it abandons its federal goal. If Europeans choose to admit non-european soil inside the union it will possibly be Russia first,not Canada.By the way Canada is connected by monarchy to the wrong EU member. UK is the country that is most negative about the ideal of a Unified Europe.They actually block it all the time.
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Sandwich
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La pens?e d'un homme est avant tout sa nostalgie
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Post by Sandwich on Apr 16, 2004 17:48:45 GMT -5
I've wondered about this myself, but never having been to Canada, I'm not sure just how European they are. All those years of living next to culturally dominant America Anyway we need at least ten years to re-adjust to the expansion the EU is already committed to. I'm also worried about the population numbers in terms of voting rights, and while I agree that Russia, as a European country, should eventually be a member, the same anxiety applies. The European vision is a complex and delicate hope - real national diversity and the real cultural/economic autonomy in the world achieved by unity - and I wonder how much its preservation depends on the Franco-German axis remaining in the driving seat for some time yet, if it is not to degenerate into the free-trade zone UK governments misguidedly seek to turn it into. The UK has all the historical equipment to understand the idea of preserving the European (Hellas onwards ...) cultural heritage as something other than little Ruritanias but somehow remains stuck in its perfide Albion role . I put it down to something in the diet ... What I can't understand is why Berschneider thinks the US is just going to disintegrate. Far as I can see, the present bunch of loonies and their talking doll are more intent on taking over the world than ever before. There's no guarantee at all that they won't succeed.
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Post by sublime on Apr 17, 2004 6:22:29 GMT -5
"If" a peace deal is forged between Israel & Palestine, I wonder how long it will be before Israel becomes a member of the EU?
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Sandwich
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La pens?e d'un homme est avant tout sa nostalgie
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Post by Sandwich on Apr 17, 2004 13:02:15 GMT -5
One problem with "extra-territorial" accessions is that it encourages further applications. One of France's arguments against Turkey is that the Moroccans would then try to join. As to Israel, apart from the fact that the very constitution of the State would have to be set aside, the legal status of the Jewish National Fund altered (it is a very influential quasi-governmental body which is nonetheless entitled to discriminate between Jews and Arabs in matters of property), the Law of Return dropped, military service rules and exemptions radically revised, the role of religion in the country completely changed, and a fundamental shift in relations with America instituted, I see no problems. www.israeleconomy.org/policystudies/ps49.pdf Long and very specific, an Israeli argument for the abolition of the JNF.
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Post by berschneider on Apr 17, 2004 13:17:51 GMT -5
One problem with "extra-territorial" accessions is that it encourages further applications. One of France's arguments against Turkey is that the Moroccans would then try to join. As to Israel, apart from the fact that the very constitution of the State would have to be set aside, the legal status of the Jewish National Fund altered (it is a very influential quasi-governmental body which is nonetheless entitled to discriminate between Jews and Arabs in matters of property), the Law of Return dropped, military service rules and exemptions radically revised, the role of religion in the country completely changed, and a fundamental shift in relations with America instituted, I see no problems. www.israeleconomy.org/policystudies/ps49.pdf Long and very specific, an Israeli argument for the abolition of the JNF. How would the EU benefit from Israel's membership in the union?
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Post by berschneider on Apr 17, 2004 13:31:39 GMT -5
"If" a peace deal is forged between Israel & Palestine, I wonder how long it will be before Israel becomes a member of the EU? I’ve heard of ho(u)rable Silvio Berlusconi toying with the idea, but I don’t quite grasp why and how would it benefit the EU? For example, were Russia to become a member of the EU if EU in the future - were a federation and not a supermarket club it is now evolving into, the benefits could be enormous. Unemployment problem could be solved in France and in Germany. Aerospace capability of EU would be enhanced. Europe would acquire powerful nuclear deterrent against its enemy (United States). Europe would become owner of world’s largest energy and mineral wealth deposits. So while there are drawbacks, there are also benefits which are obvious. Benefits of admission of Portugal and Spain were also obvious. Yes, those countries needed subsidies for a while but they became a valuable market and are firmly, loyally European. On the other hand, community benefits UK or even Irish (as well as Danish and Swedish) membership are far from certain. As far as common foreign and defense policy issues are concerned, UK membership has been a disaster. I don’t think EU should expand at any cost. I don’t believe that expansion for the sake of expansion is either sound or sensible policy. This is the kind of policy EU establishment has been pursuing since early 1990s, grab whatever it could no matter how disgusting the piece or how expensive is the acquisition. I think it’s been a pretty mad policy.
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Post by ramsharma on Apr 17, 2004 13:50:22 GMT -5
USA will never perish. America is like an idea...a country of immigrants, so basically, the intelligent types will opt to immigrate to America than to Europe or Canada or Australia. I mean, even among Jews, there is a huge gap between those in the United States and those in Israel. True for Indians and Chinese also. Heck, its even true for Philipinnos. The only cause for concern are Hispanics(mexicans mainly) because they come with the idea already ingrained in them that some territories in the US(like California) belong to Mexico, and so these states are rightfully theirs. However, third-fourth generation Hispanics are pretty assimilated, and this is a fact.
For all its flaws, for all its history of oppression, America has mended its ways and now is always on the rise, never looking back. This is a fact. It's like America has left other countries wayyy behind, and so it will be a tough thing to catch up to America. Plus, Europe has the population problem going on, due to people's reluctance to have more babies. America will always have a steady inpouring of immigration, no matter how much some people whine and cry as to how the immigrants are bungling up American traditions and culture and what not. Almost every American in urban areas has friends who are non-white or culturally different, and as such, America is much more tolerant than any European nation, no matter how liberal these nations are. I think most of these nations with whining populace, like Germany and France, are just jealous because deep down they know that the world is controlled by America, and they feel hopeless and insecure since they're not on the top anymore.
Canada can join Europe, and together they can all rendezvous to bitch and whine about how "evil" America is.
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Post by berschneider on Apr 17, 2004 13:53:34 GMT -5
USA will never perish. America is like an idea...a country of immigrants, so basically, the intelligent types will opt to immigrate to America than to Europe or Canada or Australia. I mean, even among Jews, there is a huge gap between those in the United States and those in Israel. True for Indians and Chinese also. Heck, its even true for Philipinnos. The only cause for concern are Hispanics(mexicans mainly) because they come with the idea already ingrained in them that some territories in the US(like California) belong to Mexico, and so these states are rightfully theirs. However, third-fourth generation Hispanics are pretty assimilated, and this is a fact. For all its flaws, for all its history of oppression, America has mended its ways and now is always on the rise, never looking back. This is a fact. It's like America has left other countries wayyy behind, and so it will be a tough thing to catch up to America. Plus, Europe has the population problem going on, due to people's reluctance to have more babies. America will always have a steady inpouring of immigration, no matter how much some people whine and cry as to how the immigrants are bungling up American traditions and culture and what not. Almost every American in urban areas has friends who are non-white or culturally different, and as such, America is much more tolerant than any European nation, no matter how liberal these nations are. I think most of these nations with whining populace, like Germany and France, are just jealous because deep down they know that the world is controlled by America, and they feel hopeless and insecure since they're not on the top anymore. Canada can join Europe, and together they can all rendezvous to bitch and whine about how "evil" America is. Another American mutant I suppose.
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Post by berschneider on Apr 17, 2004 14:28:51 GMT -5
What I can't understand is why Berschneider thinks the US is just going to disintegrate. Far as I can see, the present bunch of loonies and their talking doll are more intent on taking over the world than ever before. There's no guarantee at all that they won't succeed. Your Lordship. I'll go easy here point by point before I got completely drunk (I got a nice bottle of single malt Scotch as a present). So, why is United States going to go perish? 1. Americans are scum (that's not going to kill the evil scum off but it's just an introductory statement on my part. There are a few decent Americans although most of them are dead or are very old though). 2. They are good at stealing other people's stuff or killing babies but not at anything else. Although United States had won history’s lottery twice in the past century, it pretty much squandered all its winnings. Compared to war ravished Japan or Germany (or even tiny Luxembourg that rose from ruins) or other countries, genuine economic performance of the United States is not impressive and its human achievements are non-existent. 3. Since we talked about Africa in the parallel thread, United States is similar to Africa (and also to India) and that sets it apart from Europe and most developed Asian countries. It possesses a hyper-inflated sense of nationalism but it is not a nation. Americans are prepared to pay some of world’s highest taxes and spend money on killing children in far away places, but they can’t agree on medical insurance for their own citizens. It has nothing to do with socialism or capitalism (I am fervently pro-free market individual and America is not a free market society by any standard). This attitude has to do with the lack of civil solidarity in the United States. United States today is exactly the opposite of what United States was at the time of its creation. It is an adventurous empire. Adventurous empires with lusty ideas about abroad which lack civil solidarity at home do not survive for long. United States is only about 10 years old in the ultimate empire’s role and to tell you honestly I don't think it is fairing that well. 4. United States is increasingly a third world country where people are separated by income, class and often race and there is nothing that could really unite them no matter how many American flags they put on the front laws or attach to their ugly cars. United States is a RICH third world country (Most Americans don't even grasp the meaning of it). Such societies are unstable and do not survive under major calamities. America is unfree. USA keeps more of its citizens behind bars in peacetime than does China with population of 1.5 billion. Being World # 1 by prison population is not a sign of stability. 5. United States will experience its share of calamities and will not withstand them - because it never had and because it is not prepared to. Why? You cannot keep committing crimes all over the world and hope to avoid punishment. Now they've started war against Islam, which is fine with me by the way. This kind of wars can last decades if not centuries and I am sure Islam is going to outlive scummy United States. Americans are a messianic pariah of a nation as American journalist L H Mencken noted many, many decades. He summed summed the messianic essence of the United States and what it is about quite well (I got the quote from Gore Vidal’s United States, a Collection of Essays) – America (in relation to Europe) a conspiracy of dull and unimaginative men, fortuitously made powerful, against all the ideas and ideals that seem sound to their betters," It may sound cryptic but I think it's quite self-explanatory. Canadians? I have never been to Canada myself but I met a few Americans masquerading as Canadians (those species are so scared that they put maple leaf on their backpacks so locals mistake them for Canadians. No joke) and I met a few real Canadians. Canada has a dynastic link to a EU nation but you people say this is the wrong kind of nation. Let’s think about it.
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Sandwich
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Post by Sandwich on Apr 17, 2004 14:33:36 GMT -5
The USA emerged as a dominant world power as a result of Europe's wars, from which America did rather well, and because of the sheer size of it's territory: two factors the EU is geared to redress.
The EU remains the world's largest trading bloc in terms of transaction value and will shortly be so in terms of population.
On many of the most important indicators, several EU countries are significantly ahead of the US, notably, on a per head basis; child mortality, mathematical attainment, life expectancy and incidence of aids.
Current US dominance is largely based on two factors: the role of the dollar as a de facto reserve currency and military capability.The US's current grotesque trade deficit is only possible because of this role, and a key aspect of the current Iraqi adventure is to ensure that the Saudis do not forget what might happen should they switch to pricing oil in Euros. Furthermore every dollar banknote held abroad (and there are billions - often "black" money) is an interest-free loan to the US. The interaction between this international financial role and otherwise unsustainable military power is fundamental. Macdonalds needs MacDonnell-Douglas.
Germany and France are not "whining". To imply that there is something wrong with having a different vision of the world, based on geostrategic and economic interests, from one's main ally is not only childish, it's reminiscent of Comecon. It's the American public who are whining about not being loved. As to what the EU would get out of Israeli accession, apart from a whole lot of problems with Arabs, I would have thought the answer was obvious: Jews. A people who despite accounting for 2% of the US population account for something like 25 - 30% of the US's Nobel prize winners and winners of all other major prizes in mathematics, medecine and other sciences. I am not remotely Jewish myself, but I can tell talent when I see it.
I'm not sure why you see such a difference between Israeli and American Jews, Indian and American Indians, apart from the obvious brain-drain effect of US salaries, of course. India is developing quite nicely and the talents of its peoples may well have a surprise in store for all of us in the west, especially if they patch together some sort of deal with China.
As to racial attitudes, the rate of intermarriage is far higher in the UK than in America and the population is far more tolerant of it. Population growth IS a problem, as you say. Hence the current expansion.
Berschneider, sorry, I've just seen your post. In short, I think you underestimate Capitalism. "The sinews of War is infinite money", as the Roman said. So long as the US is rich, it will survive. (And thank God - I am not anti-American, just pro-Europe).
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Post by berschneider on Apr 17, 2004 14:35:37 GMT -5
Sure, the solar system will eventually perish but the USA will outlive the solar system.
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Post by berschneider on Apr 17, 2004 14:42:57 GMT -5
Population growth IS a problem, as you say. Hence the current expansion. Right, Sandwich, only American scumbags are crying all the time for being not sufficiently loved. Why would anyone like a bag of scum is beyond me. They actually demand to be loved and get offended when they are told to go away and screw. Every single word you wrote is true by the way. Population / expansion / enlargement. Can't they just pay people to have babies in core EU states instead of wasting same money in "new territories?" This enlargement business is expensive but in my opinion candidate states should a) be loyal to the EU and not to the Evil Empire (most of new candidates are openly gay, sorry openly pro-American stooges) and b)PAY for their admission and not vice versa.
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Post by berschneider on Apr 17, 2004 14:49:18 GMT -5
By the way Canada is connected by monarchy to the wrong EU member. UK is the country that is most negative about the ideal of a Unified Europe.They actually block it all the time. Good point, Praetor. First we have to think how to convert Britain to the true faith so then we could grab whatever is left of her dominions and colonies.
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Sandwich
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Post by Sandwich on Apr 17, 2004 15:04:13 GMT -5
France has done a great deal in this direction. It doesn't work. The middle classes just don't want to have 4 kids anymore. We need the Poles. What worries me is that the Germans will get them all and we in the UK will get the Gypsies - a people I know little about but have not heard good things.
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